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>I also am tired of "Terrorism" Many people are concerned. But as a matter of fact. More people die every single day in car accidents. We as a society should n

>I also am tired of "Terrorism" Many people are concerned. But as a matter of fact. More people die every single day in car accidents. We as a society should not give up our freedoms (the right to be forgotten, the right to remain anonymous) for the illusion of safety. As the recent London, Barcelona, or Charlottesville attacks have shown, you only need one crazy person to carry it out for whatever reason. And even with a sophisticated tracking network you won't be able to stop this effectively.

2bitencryption 9y ago
think you're preaching to the choir here
- handedness 9y ago
  That’s how you get 'em to sing.
wruza 9y ago
Most attacks (most like in "98%") are prevented before the crazy guy even goes out of his room, by intelligence. At least guys from local special forces share and approve that in regular talks. If they lose all tracks, they become completely blind. CCTVs and detectors are there only to calm down people and are somewhat useless, in a statistical sense. If it began, you'll know it anyway. These acts happen because intelligence made a single mistake in a day-to-day work, not because terrorists invented yet another way to do it. The key points are communication and identification. No one will crash into a crowd without talking about that with co-crazies. It's also naive to assume that they prepare actions only few times a year. They really hate you, your life style, your everything. If you turn your defenses off, car accidents will appear like an insignificant loss in few weeks. Why I'm stressing this? Because intelligence methods are naturally contradicting your freedoms. Blissful ignorance should not drive a freedom train.
- swiley 9y ago
  >Most attacks (most like in "98%") are prevented before the crazy guy even goes out of his room, by intelligence [citation needed]
  - wruza 9y ago
    Citation of what, of officialy classified terrorist do and don't tutorial? Are you joking or do you really think it works [citation needed]-way? No wonder NSA/etc fools you for decades then.
    - adamlett 9y ago
      So, did you just make up the number?
      - wruza 9y ago
        Most is not a number. Upd: for more specific details: https://thebreakthrough.org/generation_archive/effectiveness_of_cctv_surveill https://thebreakthrough.org/generation_archive/effectiveness... http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10242694.2011.650481 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10242694.2011.65... Just few of dozens with proper citation and research, for those who need it. This one is for UK known as very serious in police regard, afaik: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39183003 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39183003 And finally, this one is world-wide. Scrolling through 2016 on mobile may be pretty enlightening or frightening, depending on your views: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thwarted_Islamist_terrorist_attacks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thwarted_Islamist_te...
        PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        > Most is not a number. ...You said "98%". It's right there.
        wruza 9y ago
        Someone also said "free like in beer" but it wasn't beer. Your arguments to the point (not to misinterpreted words) are still welcome, though I'm pretty tired now that three different persons put a honk and lost in fog. Cool argumentation, dudes, hold it like that.
zaroth 9y ago
OT: interesting you put Charlottesville in that list. Do we have any reason to believe James Fields planned to drive his car into a crowd of people that day? I think to call it a terrorist attack would require establishing it was planned / premeditated. From what I can tell the prosecution will be hard pressed to prove even a hate crime, let alone terrorism.
- burkaman 9y ago
  That is not a meaningful distinction. A car attack planned 30 seconds in advance is as dangerous as one planned 3 weeks in advance.
  - zaroth 9y ago
    The law certainly finds a meaningful distinction between spur of the moment versus premeditated attacks. Also a terrorist attack is carnage for a specific purpose, not just any carnage at all. I'm not sure there's even any evidence it was planned at all (even 30 seconds in advance) versus a panic response to being under attack by a surrounding mob. I'm not trying to defend any particular action, just that it does seem very distinct from, for example, a bucket of TATP and nails left in the subway. I personally am waiting for after the trial to draw any conclusion about Charlottesville.
    - tomjakubowski 9y ago
      I'm not sure there's even any evidence it was planned at all (even 30 seconds in advance) versus a panic response to being under attack by a surrounding mob. Oh, please. Take one minute to watch the (graphic, disturbing) videos from the scene and observe that, before the attack, the Charger was nowhere near the "mob" when he made the decision to gun the engine to plow through it. Fields started his attack run from well down the street, perpendicular to the marching counter-protestors.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]

2bitencryption 9y ago

think you're preaching to the choir here

handedness 9y ago
That’s how you get 'em to sing.

wruza 9y ago

Most attacks (most like in "98%") are prevented before the crazy guy even goes out of his room, by intelligence. At least guys from local special forces share and approve that in regular talks. If they lose all tracks, they become completely blind. CCTVs and detectors are there only to calm down people and are somewhat useless, in a statistical sense. If it began, you'll know it anyway. These acts happen because intelligence made a single mistake in a day-to-day work, not because terrorists invented yet another way to do it. The key points are communication and identification. No one will crash into a crowd without talking about that with co-crazies. It's also naive to assume that they prepare actions only few times a year. They really hate you, your life style, your everything. If you turn your defenses off, car accidents will appear like an insignificant loss in few weeks. Why I'm stressing this? Because intelligence methods are naturally contradicting your freedoms. Blissful ignorance should not drive a freedom train.

swiley 9y ago
>Most attacks (most like in "98%") are prevented before the crazy guy even goes out of his room, by intelligence [citation needed]
- wruza 9y ago
  Citation of what, of officialy classified terrorist do and don't tutorial? Are you joking or do you really think it works [citation needed]-way? No wonder NSA/etc fools you for decades then.
  - adamlett 9y ago
    So, did you just make up the number?
    - wruza 9y ago
      Most is not a number. Upd: for more specific details: https://thebreakthrough.org/generation_archive/effectiveness_of_cctv_surveill https://thebreakthrough.org/generation_archive/effectiveness... http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10242694.2011.650481 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10242694.2011.65... Just few of dozens with proper citation and research, for those who need it. This one is for UK known as very serious in police regard, afaik: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39183003 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39183003 And finally, this one is world-wide. Scrolling through 2016 on mobile may be pretty enlightening or frightening, depending on your views: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thwarted_Islamist_terrorist_attacks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thwarted_Islamist_te...
      - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        > Most is not a number. ...You said "98%". It's right there.
        wruza 9y ago
        Someone also said "free like in beer" but it wasn't beer. Your arguments to the point (not to misinterpreted words) are still welcome, though I'm pretty tired now that three different persons put a honk and lost in fog. Cool argumentation, dudes, hold it like that.

zaroth 9y ago

OT: interesting you put Charlottesville in that list. Do we have any reason to believe James Fields planned to drive his car into a crowd of people that day? I think to call it a terrorist attack would require establishing it was planned / premeditated. From what I can tell the prosecution will be hard pressed to prove even a hate crime, let alone terrorism.

burkaman 9y ago
That is not a meaningful distinction. A car attack planned 30 seconds in advance is as dangerous as one planned 3 weeks in advance.
- zaroth 9y ago
  The law certainly finds a meaningful distinction between spur of the moment versus premeditated attacks. Also a terrorist attack is carnage for a specific purpose, not just any carnage at all. I'm not sure there's even any evidence it was planned at all (even 30 seconds in advance) versus a panic response to being under attack by a surrounding mob. I'm not trying to defend any particular action, just that it does seem very distinct from, for example, a bucket of TATP and nails left in the subway. I personally am waiting for after the trial to draw any conclusion about Charlottesville.
  - tomjakubowski 9y ago
    I'm not sure there's even any evidence it was planned at all (even 30 seconds in advance) versus a panic response to being under attack by a surrounding mob. Oh, please. Take one minute to watch the (graphic, disturbing) videos from the scene and observe that, before the attack, the Charger was nowhere near the "mob" when he made the decision to gun the engine to plow through it. Fields started his attack run from well down the street, perpendicular to the marching counter-protestors.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]