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So if I get it correct, Apple stated years ago that Flash wouldn't be support anymore on their products (then others followed). So Spotify, due to the end of F

by Xoros 9y ago

So if I get it correct, Apple stated years ago that Flash wouldn't be support anymore on their products (then others followed). So Spotify, due to the end of Flash player moved to HTML5 player. And then the only browser which need a flash player is Apple Safari ? Oh, the irony :-)

coldtea 9y ago
It doesn't need a Flash player. Spotify needs to drop its DRM.
- bpicolo 9y ago
  They definitely don't get a choice in that matter. The music labels wouldn't cave there
  - achamayou 9y ago
    How do other services like Amazon Music or Qobuz (only mentioning the ones I've tried first hand, there's probably others) manage to have web players that work on Safari without Flash then?
    - savanaly 9y ago
      https://developer.apple.com/streaming/fps/ https://developer.apple.com/streaming/fps/
koonsolo 9y ago
The only reason they did that was because Flash portals were competing with their app store.
- egwynn 9y ago
  I must be misreading you. It sounds like you’re saying that Apple’s reasoning for not supporting Flash on the iPhone was because “Flash portals” were competing with the iPhone App Store. Is that right? The iPhone was released in the summer of 2007, didn’t support Flash, and wasn’t intended to run third-party apps[0]. After Jobs caved on releasing an SDK, they finally opened the App Store the following autumn. There was never an opportunity for “Flash portals” to compete with the App Store, let alone to influence the decision to support Flash in the first place. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_SDK#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_SDK#History
  - koonsolo 9y ago
    Hey man, don't act so condescending. I was professionally writing games in 2003 for mobile devices (started with PocketPC), and we had the nr 1 best selling game on that platform, so I know my stuff. And if you really want to know, read this article from Wired on the topic: https://www.wired.com/2008/11/adobe-flash-on/ https://www.wired.com/2008/11/adobe-flash-on/ Sad that I get downvoted for this, but I already accepted that on hacker news, don't go against all the Apple and Google fanboys.
    - egwynn 9y ago
      Sorry if I came across as condescending, that wasn’t my aim. It sounds like perhaps I misread your comment above and that maybe our respective arguments weren’t actually about the same thing. It’s easy to make too many assumptions about what people mean (especially in text-only conversations!) so I’d like to walk you through my thought process in interpreting your words in order to minimize ambiguity. When I was reading “the only reason they did that was because …”, I mentally substituted the pronouns to read “the only reason Apple didn’t support Flash on the original iPhone was because …”. And then I was left with “The only reason Apple didn’t support Flash on the original iPhone was because Flash portals were competing with their app store”. So that’s the idea that I was confronting. If that’s not the sentiment you were advancing, then the first thing we should do is settle it.
      - koonsolo 9y ago
        Flash games were a serious threat to their app store, that is why they banned Flash. Read the article for more insight. But since I'm defending Flash, and saying something negative about Apple, let the downvotes begin. But the blocking of Flash was a business decision, not a technical one, or even a "support the open web" one. And so yes, if they allowed Flash, then portals were indeed a direct competitor to their app store. That is why they kept them out.
        egwynn 9y ago
        First up, was I correct in my interpretation of your initial comment? Nothing else makes sense if we're not talking about the same thing. Second, I'm not suggesting that the threat posed by Flash wasn't ever a factor in any decision Apple ever made about supporting Flash on iOS (then iPhone OS). But you said "the only reason they did that ...", which suggests that there were no other reasons ever. But if the first iPhone was never intended to run 3rd party apps, then there was nothing to compete with at first. If there was nothing to compete with, then the initial decision not to support Flash could not have been motivated by the threat to the then-not-even-planned-to-exist App Store.
egwynn 9y ago
I guess it’s ironic if you ignore the DRM part. Apple took two hardline positions on web tech and not everyone is playing by both of these rules. It kinda looks like a temporary lapse on the part of Spotify while they go through a transition, though. The other major players (Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Pandora, etc.) all seem to have abandoned Flash without abandoning Safari.
- magicalist 9y ago
  > Apple took two hardline positions on web tech and not everyone is playing by both of these rules. Which ones? Desktop Safari still supports Flash and it has DRM available in the form of FairPlay. It's the latter which those other platforms are presumably using.
- kennywinker 9y ago
  Netflix stopped working for me with Safari about a year ago, when I have an external monitor plugged in. It complains about some display drm nonsense, I guess because my external monitor could be a recording device? Either way, keep chrome around and up to date just for watching netflix and it does not make me happy.
  - ShinyCyril 9y ago
    Netflix HTML5 player refuses to run on older CPUs in Safari. I have a 2009 Mac Pro with a copy of Firefox installed just so I can watch Netflix.

by Xoros 9y ago

coldtea 9y ago

It doesn't need a Flash player. Spotify needs to drop its DRM.

bpicolo 9y ago
They definitely don't get a choice in that matter. The music labels wouldn't cave there
- achamayou 9y ago
  How do other services like Amazon Music or Qobuz (only mentioning the ones I've tried first hand, there's probably others) manage to have web players that work on Safari without Flash then?
  - savanaly 9y ago
    https://developer.apple.com/streaming/fps/ https://developer.apple.com/streaming/fps/

koonsolo 9y ago

The only reason they did that was because Flash portals were competing with their app store.

egwynn 9y ago
I must be misreading you. It sounds like you’re saying that Apple’s reasoning for not supporting Flash on the iPhone was because “Flash portals” were competing with the iPhone App Store. Is that right? The iPhone was released in the summer of 2007, didn’t support Flash, and wasn’t intended to run third-party apps[0]. After Jobs caved on releasing an SDK, they finally opened the App Store the following autumn. There was never an opportunity for “Flash portals” to compete with the App Store, let alone to influence the decision to support Flash in the first place. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_SDK#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_SDK#History
- koonsolo 9y ago
  Hey man, don't act so condescending. I was professionally writing games in 2003 for mobile devices (started with PocketPC), and we had the nr 1 best selling game on that platform, so I know my stuff. And if you really want to know, read this article from Wired on the topic: https://www.wired.com/2008/11/adobe-flash-on/ https://www.wired.com/2008/11/adobe-flash-on/ Sad that I get downvoted for this, but I already accepted that on hacker news, don't go against all the Apple and Google fanboys.
  - egwynn 9y ago
    Sorry if I came across as condescending, that wasn’t my aim. It sounds like perhaps I misread your comment above and that maybe our respective arguments weren’t actually about the same thing. It’s easy to make too many assumptions about what people mean (especially in text-only conversations!) so I’d like to walk you through my thought process in interpreting your words in order to minimize ambiguity. When I was reading “the only reason they did that was because …”, I mentally substituted the pronouns to read “the only reason Apple didn’t support Flash on the original iPhone was because …”. And then I was left with “The only reason Apple didn’t support Flash on the original iPhone was because Flash portals were competing with their app store”. So that’s the idea that I was confronting. If that’s not the sentiment you were advancing, then the first thing we should do is settle it.
    - koonsolo 9y ago
      Flash games were a serious threat to their app store, that is why they banned Flash. Read the article for more insight. But since I'm defending Flash, and saying something negative about Apple, let the downvotes begin. But the blocking of Flash was a business decision, not a technical one, or even a "support the open web" one. And so yes, if they allowed Flash, then portals were indeed a direct competitor to their app store. That is why they kept them out.
      - egwynn 9y ago
        First up, was I correct in my interpretation of your initial comment? Nothing else makes sense if we're not talking about the same thing. Second, I'm not suggesting that the threat posed by Flash wasn't ever a factor in any decision Apple ever made about supporting Flash on iOS (then iPhone OS). But you said "the only reason they did that ...", which suggests that there were no other reasons ever. But if the first iPhone was never intended to run 3rd party apps, then there was nothing to compete with at first. If there was nothing to compete with, then the initial decision not to support Flash could not have been motivated by the threat to the then-not-even-planned-to-exist App Store.

egwynn 9y ago

I guess it’s ironic if you ignore the DRM part. Apple took two hardline positions on web tech and not everyone is playing by both of these rules. It kinda looks like a temporary lapse on the part of Spotify while they go through a transition, though. The other major players (Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Pandora, etc.) all seem to have abandoned Flash without abandoning Safari.

magicalist 9y ago
> Apple took two hardline positions on web tech and not everyone is playing by both of these rules. Which ones? Desktop Safari still supports Flash and it has DRM available in the form of FairPlay. It's the latter which those other platforms are presumably using.
kennywinker 9y ago
Netflix stopped working for me with Safari about a year ago, when I have an external monitor plugged in. It complains about some display drm nonsense, I guess because my external monitor could be a recording device? Either way, keep chrome around and up to date just for watching netflix and it does not make me happy.
- ShinyCyril 9y ago
  Netflix HTML5 player refuses to run on older CPUs in Safari. I have a 2009 Mac Pro with a copy of Firefox installed just so I can watch Netflix.