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Here's my guess as to what happened. A couple months ago, Spotify switched their web player from using Flash to using HTML5 + DRM (the "standardized" web DRM).

Here's my guess as to what happened. A couple months ago, Spotify switched their web player from using Flash to using HTML5 + DRM (the "standardized" web DRM). At least, that was the case for Chrome and Firefox, which I noticed because I exclusively use the Spotify web player. But I guess Safari doesn't support web DRM via the Widevine CDM. So they must have kept the Flash based web player around for Safari. And, indeed, Flash would only be needed for Safari. Chrome and Firefox support web DRM on Windows, Linux, and AFAIK MacOS too. Now, supporting both a Flash based web player and an HTML5 based web player is a lot of engineering. I'll bet at some point they decided they didn't want to do that. The only reason they still had the Flash player was to support Safari and Safari only has 2% market share. On top of that, I'll bet most of their customers use the desktop app. So of the 2% of Safari users, how many are using the Spotify web player? So they dropped their Flash based player, and thus had to also drop support for Safari. I think it's a fairly reasonable move. Flash is dying; they couldn't keep their player on it, so they _had_ to move to HTML5. Since they have to use DRM at the behest of the RIAA, web DRM thus becomes their only choice. I doubt the story is much better for alternatives. Even if any of the other music subscription platforms are still using Flash, that's unlikely to continue for long. I don't blame Safari for not implementing web DRM. That leaves only one party left to point the finger at; the RIAA. If you need someone to blame, blame them.

Xoros 9y ago
So if I get it correct, Apple stated years ago that Flash wouldn't be support anymore on their products (then others followed). So Spotify, due to the end of Flash player moved to HTML5 player. And then the only browser which need a flash player is Apple Safari ? Oh, the irony :-)
- coldtea 9y ago
  It doesn't need a Flash player. Spotify needs to drop its DRM.
  - bpicolo 9y ago
    They definitely don't get a choice in that matter. The music labels wouldn't cave there
    - achamayou 9y ago
      How do other services like Amazon Music or Qobuz (only mentioning the ones I've tried first hand, there's probably others) manage to have web players that work on Safari without Flash then?
      - savanaly 9y ago
        https://developer.apple.com/streaming/fps/ https://developer.apple.com/streaming/fps/
- koonsolo 9y ago
  The only reason they did that was because Flash portals were competing with their app store.
  - egwynn 9y ago
    I must be misreading you. It sounds like you’re saying that Apple’s reasoning for not supporting Flash on the iPhone was because “Flash portals” were competing with the iPhone App Store. Is that right? The iPhone was released in the summer of 2007, didn’t support Flash, and wasn’t intended to run third-party apps[0]. After Jobs caved on releasing an SDK, they finally opened the App Store the following autumn. There was never an opportunity for “Flash portals” to compete with the App Store, let alone to influence the decision to support Flash in the first place. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_SDK#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_SDK#History
    - koonsolo 9y ago
      Hey man, don't act so condescending. I was professionally writing games in 2003 for mobile devices (started with PocketPC), and we had the nr 1 best selling game on that platform, so I know my stuff. And if you really want to know, read this article from Wired on the topic: https://www.wired.com/2008/11/adobe-flash-on/ https://www.wired.com/2008/11/adobe-flash-on/ Sad that I get downvoted for this, but I already accepted that on hacker news, don't go against all the Apple and Google fanboys.
      - egwynn 9y ago
        Sorry if I came across as condescending, that wasn’t my aim. It sounds like perhaps I misread your comment above and that maybe our respective arguments weren’t actually about the same thing. It’s easy to make too many assumptions about what people mean (especially in text-only conversations!) so I’d like to walk you through my thought process in interpreting your words in order to minimize ambiguity. When I was reading “the only reason they did that was because …”, I mentally substituted the pronouns to read “the only reason Apple didn’t support Flash on the original iPhone was because …”. And then I was left with “The only reason Apple didn’t support Flash on the original iPhone was because Flash portals were competing with their app store”. So that’s the idea that I was confronting. If that’s not the sentiment you were advancing, then the first thing we should do is settle it.
- egwynn 9y ago
  I guess it’s ironic if you ignore the DRM part. Apple took two hardline positions on web tech and not everyone is playing by both of these rules. It kinda looks like a temporary lapse on the part of Spotify while they go through a transition, though. The other major players (Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Pandora, etc.) all seem to have abandoned Flash without abandoning Safari.
  - magicalist 9y ago
    > Apple took two hardline positions on web tech and not everyone is playing by both of these rules. Which ones? Desktop Safari still supports Flash and it has DRM available in the form of FairPlay. It's the latter which those other platforms are presumably using.
  - kennywinker 9y ago
    Netflix stopped working for me with Safari about a year ago, when I have an external monitor plugged in. It complains about some display drm nonsense, I guess because my external monitor could be a recording device? Either way, keep chrome around and up to date just for watching netflix and it does not make me happy.
    - ShinyCyril 9y ago
      Netflix HTML5 player refuses to run on older CPUs in Safari. I have a 2009 Mac Pro with a copy of Firefox installed just so I can watch Netflix.
bmurphy1976 9y ago
Apple has FairPlay available for Safari. I've implemented it in the past, it wasn't that difficult, so I'm not sure why Spotify hasn't gone that route. Maybe it's a licensing issue...
om2 9y ago
Spotify could have easily made their site work in Safari using FairPlay Streaming for DRM. It’s a mystery to me why they didn’t. Netflix and Amazon Prime Video are both using it successfully.
- cwyers 9y ago
  They could have possibly done it. I don't know if it would have been easy. They may have looked at the size of their Safari user base and decided it wasn't worth it.
brogrammernot 9y ago
As someone who has maintained a Flash, HTML 5 and a Web GL component before, I support them in this. It was absolutely awful maintaining them.
dep_b 9y ago
> Safari only has 2% market share Well worldwide.....maybe? But if you're in the game for paying customers you're looking at 10-20% easily, with desktop users. Mobile users even more. > On top of that, I'll bet most of their customers use the desktop app That's true. Staring at that green icon in my dock right now!
bobajeff 9y ago
It looks like Widevine is the new Flash Player. Big site's will support all the CDMs because they have the resources but everyone else will standardize on the one with the largest installed base (Widevine).
- detaro 9y ago
  We'll see if that changes, I thought the idea behind EME was that every browser could use all DRM modules...
detaro 9y ago
If I understand the MDN page correctly, all browser support EME ("web DRM"), they just ship with different decryption modules: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Encrypted_Media_Extensions_API#Browser_compatibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Encrypted_M...

Xoros 9y ago

So if I get it correct, Apple stated years ago that Flash wouldn't be support anymore on their products (then others followed). So Spotify, due to the end of Flash player moved to HTML5 player. And then the only browser which need a flash player is Apple Safari ? Oh, the irony :-)

coldtea 9y ago
It doesn't need a Flash player. Spotify needs to drop its DRM.
- bpicolo 9y ago
  They definitely don't get a choice in that matter. The music labels wouldn't cave there
  - achamayou 9y ago
    How do other services like Amazon Music or Qobuz (only mentioning the ones I've tried first hand, there's probably others) manage to have web players that work on Safari without Flash then?
    - savanaly 9y ago
      https://developer.apple.com/streaming/fps/ https://developer.apple.com/streaming/fps/
koonsolo 9y ago
The only reason they did that was because Flash portals were competing with their app store.
- egwynn 9y ago
  I must be misreading you. It sounds like you’re saying that Apple’s reasoning for not supporting Flash on the iPhone was because “Flash portals” were competing with the iPhone App Store. Is that right? The iPhone was released in the summer of 2007, didn’t support Flash, and wasn’t intended to run third-party apps[0]. After Jobs caved on releasing an SDK, they finally opened the App Store the following autumn. There was never an opportunity for “Flash portals” to compete with the App Store, let alone to influence the decision to support Flash in the first place. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_SDK#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_SDK#History
  - koonsolo 9y ago
    Hey man, don't act so condescending. I was professionally writing games in 2003 for mobile devices (started with PocketPC), and we had the nr 1 best selling game on that platform, so I know my stuff. And if you really want to know, read this article from Wired on the topic: https://www.wired.com/2008/11/adobe-flash-on/ https://www.wired.com/2008/11/adobe-flash-on/ Sad that I get downvoted for this, but I already accepted that on hacker news, don't go against all the Apple and Google fanboys.
    - egwynn 9y ago
      Sorry if I came across as condescending, that wasn’t my aim. It sounds like perhaps I misread your comment above and that maybe our respective arguments weren’t actually about the same thing. It’s easy to make too many assumptions about what people mean (especially in text-only conversations!) so I’d like to walk you through my thought process in interpreting your words in order to minimize ambiguity. When I was reading “the only reason they did that was because …”, I mentally substituted the pronouns to read “the only reason Apple didn’t support Flash on the original iPhone was because …”. And then I was left with “The only reason Apple didn’t support Flash on the original iPhone was because Flash portals were competing with their app store”. So that’s the idea that I was confronting. If that’s not the sentiment you were advancing, then the first thing we should do is settle it.
egwynn 9y ago
I guess it’s ironic if you ignore the DRM part. Apple took two hardline positions on web tech and not everyone is playing by both of these rules. It kinda looks like a temporary lapse on the part of Spotify while they go through a transition, though. The other major players (Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Pandora, etc.) all seem to have abandoned Flash without abandoning Safari.
- magicalist 9y ago
  > Apple took two hardline positions on web tech and not everyone is playing by both of these rules. Which ones? Desktop Safari still supports Flash and it has DRM available in the form of FairPlay. It's the latter which those other platforms are presumably using.
- kennywinker 9y ago
  Netflix stopped working for me with Safari about a year ago, when I have an external monitor plugged in. It complains about some display drm nonsense, I guess because my external monitor could be a recording device? Either way, keep chrome around and up to date just for watching netflix and it does not make me happy.
  - ShinyCyril 9y ago
    Netflix HTML5 player refuses to run on older CPUs in Safari. I have a 2009 Mac Pro with a copy of Firefox installed just so I can watch Netflix.

bmurphy1976 9y ago

Apple has FairPlay available for Safari. I've implemented it in the past, it wasn't that difficult, so I'm not sure why Spotify hasn't gone that route. Maybe it's a licensing issue...

om2 9y ago

Spotify could have easily made their site work in Safari using FairPlay Streaming for DRM. It’s a mystery to me why they didn’t. Netflix and Amazon Prime Video are both using it successfully.

cwyers 9y ago
They could have possibly done it. I don't know if it would have been easy. They may have looked at the size of their Safari user base and decided it wasn't worth it.

brogrammernot 9y ago

As someone who has maintained a Flash, HTML 5 and a Web GL component before, I support them in this. It was absolutely awful maintaining them.

dep_b 9y ago

> Safari only has 2% market share Well worldwide.....maybe? But if you're in the game for paying customers you're looking at 10-20% easily, with desktop users. Mobile users even more. > On top of that, I'll bet most of their customers use the desktop app That's true. Staring at that green icon in my dock right now!

bobajeff 9y ago

It looks like Widevine is the new Flash Player. Big site's will support all the CDMs because they have the resources but everyone else will standardize on the one with the largest installed base (Widevine).

detaro 9y ago
We'll see if that changes, I thought the idea behind EME was that every browser could use all DRM modules...

detaro 9y ago

If I understand the MDN page correctly, all browser support EME ("web DRM"), they just ship with different decryption modules: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Encrypted_Media_Extensions_API#Browser_compatibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Encrypted_M...