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>What is it about harassment that bothers people? Why don’t people like being subject to sexual harassment? I can't answer this question. That's my point, I ha

>What is it about harassment that bothers people? Why don’t people like being subject to sexual harassment? I can't answer this question. That's my point, I have no clue why people care about what they perceive as sexual comments being directed at them. It just doesn't make sense to me. Here is my thought process; if words can't hurt people physically, and I personally don't care about anything anyone says to me, there must be other people in this world that feel the same way. If this is the case than harassment must be on some level subjective, but a objective analysis of common reality would come to the same conclusion. It's a simple fact that what is sexual harassment in America today is not the same as it was 10 years ago, or the same as it is for a tribe in Africa, and I don't believe an objective definition of sexual harassment could ever exist. Therefore sexual harassment can not be universally banned in the workplace or otherwise. At least not in a non authoritarian rights based system. Of course if all you care about is your perception and your subjective reality, and you believe it's ok to push this on people, my point is moot. I just lean towards basic rights and leaving the subjective stuff alone. It all depends on how you view reality. Personally I feel reality has a common base of extremely simple truths (science/normative ethics), and all else is essentially arbitrary. Is this right or wrong? I'm clearly not qualified to say, nor is anyone else. Edit: It's like trying to find an answer to the equation "2+2" if you don't know anything about math. Some people say the answer is between 14 and 20, some really strange people may say it's 2,000 and they know it for sure. Personally, I think it's best to say it's between negative and positive infinity and wait for additional information. The question of the ethics of sexual harassment in the workplace is "2+2", and nobody on earth really know anything about "math" in this regard. So defer to the least restrictive answer.

solidsnack9000 9y ago
Well, harassment is very threatening. The other person clearly wants something. They aren't being nice about it or even straightforward. They have usually been around longer and sit higher in the organization. If you don't give them what they want -- they might make your life hell until you quit. Or they might not. Hard to say. What do you do? This happens every week. People who engage in harassment can be quite masterful about their use of language. It's rare indeed for them to actually come out and say, they want to trade favors. What is bothersome is not the language but the underlying goal. What is intimidating is different in different countries but nearly every country has laws on the books against assault (in law: "a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact"). Your standard for what can be made law in a "non authoritarian" system is awfully high. It's okay for different countries and cultures to have different laws.
- neveroffensive 9y ago
  You're kind of making an unsupported leap asserting that sexually harassing comments always have intentions behind them (Edit: and by this I mean intentions to assault/blackmail, not intentions to engage in something consensual). I mean there is a distinction between sexual attraction and the intention to actually force physical assault. Obviously it's not authoritarian to stop someone who's actually threatening someone, or who is strait up assaulting someone. I feel pretty strawmanned in that regard. I just disagree that sexual harassment always stems from an intention to physically engage regardless of the other persons desires. I just don't see how a comment like, "I intend to masturbate to you", guarantees an intentional threat. I see no evidence that the individuals here would have physically harmed the female in question. The discussion of forcing sex through power is kind of a separate issue more alone the lines of blackmail than harassment. Of course someone saying, "Nice behind", wants something. So dose the guy who compliments your shirt, potentially. We all feel desire for someone we find attractive, and sure some people may vocalize this desire in ways perceived pathetic and unacceptable, and some won't. The mere feeling of desire and the vocalization of it dose not guarantee an intention to physically assault. Nor dose it guarantee blackmail for sex. I think you have an extremely bleak view of humanity if you think most people are capable of going to the extent of assaulting/blackmailing someone just because they vocalize their attraction. I just don't see this... Edit: I feel like I'm really coming out in support of sexual harassment here. I hope you realize this isn't my intention. I'm just trying to argue against the endless tide of restrictions I feel are arbitrarily calibrated to the point where they may stifle life itself for many people.

solidsnack9000 9y ago

Well, harassment is very threatening. The other person clearly wants something. They aren't being nice about it or even straightforward. They have usually been around longer and sit higher in the organization. If you don't give them what they want -- they might make your life hell until you quit. Or they might not. Hard to say. What do you do? This happens every week. People who engage in harassment can be quite masterful about their use of language. It's rare indeed for them to actually come out and say, they want to trade favors. What is bothersome is not the language but the underlying goal. What is intimidating is different in different countries but nearly every country has laws on the books against assault (in law: "a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact"). Your standard for what can be made law in a "non authoritarian" system is awfully high. It's okay for different countries and cultures to have different laws.

neveroffensive 9y ago
You're kind of making an unsupported leap asserting that sexually harassing comments always have intentions behind them (Edit: and by this I mean intentions to assault/blackmail, not intentions to engage in something consensual). I mean there is a distinction between sexual attraction and the intention to actually force physical assault. Obviously it's not authoritarian to stop someone who's actually threatening someone, or who is strait up assaulting someone. I feel pretty strawmanned in that regard. I just disagree that sexual harassment always stems from an intention to physically engage regardless of the other persons desires. I just don't see how a comment like, "I intend to masturbate to you", guarantees an intentional threat. I see no evidence that the individuals here would have physically harmed the female in question. The discussion of forcing sex through power is kind of a separate issue more alone the lines of blackmail than harassment. Of course someone saying, "Nice behind", wants something. So dose the guy who compliments your shirt, potentially. We all feel desire for someone we find attractive, and sure some people may vocalize this desire in ways perceived pathetic and unacceptable, and some won't. The mere feeling of desire and the vocalization of it dose not guarantee an intention to physically assault. Nor dose it guarantee blackmail for sex. I think you have an extremely bleak view of humanity if you think most people are capable of going to the extent of assaulting/blackmailing someone just because they vocalize their attraction. I just don't see this... Edit: I feel like I'm really coming out in support of sexual harassment here. I hope you realize this isn't my intention. I'm just trying to argue against the endless tide of restrictions I feel are arbitrarily calibrated to the point where they may stifle life itself for many people.