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> Are you asserting that a sizeable fraction of U.S. dollar M3 or even M2 is sitting idle speculating on the future value of the U.S. dollar? No. But that also

> Are you asserting that a sizeable fraction of U.S. dollar M3 or even M2 is sitting idle speculating on the future value of the U.S. dollar? No. But that also happens whether it is inadvertently just sitting there, or in bonds as part of a massive carry trade Secondly did you read the article? It is about sizeable portions of bitcoin being used to invest in ICOs, which I was agreeing with and pointing out how otherwise illiquid portions of national currencies are used this way as well

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> that also happens whether it is inadvertently just sitting there, or in bonds Bonds fund useful activity. Most ICOs have yet to finance a single developer's salary.
- acty1 9y ago
  District0x is paying salaries like that and many others. The point the parent was making is that the money IS SITTING there. And bonds are not M0.... you are proving his point. Anyone holding USD in a deposit account or loaned it out is speculating that the value of USD will remain almost the same (willing to lose 2% to inflation). Of course someone holding a currency expects value to hold or go up. Unfortunately value of USD and other fiat goes down at exponential rate and by end of century will be practically worthless. Imagine paper bills in year 2100. No? Then you can imagine USA will digitize it's currency on some Blockchain of their own(this is a no brainer). Now imagine THE Fed changing interest rates (aka Coin Emission Rate) as they please. Pretty soon people will diversify their currency holdings away from a single country/government that can change emission (interest) rate at will and has onerous reporting and surveillance requirements. Logical conclusion is a supra/trans-national global currency something Bitcoin or Monero. "Granpa, was it true that when you were young you used to get paid in tree cotton papers?"
  - danblick 9y ago
    I think you are conflating "blockchain" with "electronic payment". I can use my Visa card without needing a blockchain. And banks will settle the payment electronically without ever moving paper money. "No Timmy, I was not paid with paper money even in the 1990s."
    - acty1 9y ago
      Funny, I remember getting my first pay from summer job in 1999 in CASH, then later by check and then finally by dirext deposit (which I would withdraw in cotton paper form to spend). Maybe you lived in a more advanced Country than Canada or the USA. Curious where in the 1990's you would have been paid, and spend, purely digitally.
  - rocqua 9y ago
    People like having recourse with trusted third parties. They also like universally accepted currency.
- darawk 9y ago
  Most ICOs are financing developer salaries. You can quibble about whether the ICOs are funding useful work - but they're definitely paying developers.
  - alexasmyths 9y ago
    "Most ICOs are financing developer salaries." If they are underwritten by VC's you can be assured that the terms heavily favour them, and the immediate value is going into their pockets. It's the ultimate rub. A free, legal way to print Monopoly money that people will trade for real money.
    - darawk 9y ago
      You could say that about nearly any investment. The trick is picking the ones that aren't Monopoly money.
- ringaroundthetx 9y ago
  Your quest to find a distinction is going to continue to fall apart. Most forms of capital formation have no bearing on anything in physical goods and services economy, colloquially called "main street". ICOs are no different and I'm not sure why you feel the need to single them out. The point here is that people are growing this currency's economy by reinvesting in new projects within that economy, just like they do in national currency economies. Thats what the article is about, thats why I've been pointing out, and what is hard to accept about that?

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> that also happens whether it is inadvertently just sitting there, or in bonds Bonds fund useful activity. Most ICOs have yet to finance a single developer's salary.

acty1 9y ago
District0x is paying salaries like that and many others. The point the parent was making is that the money IS SITTING there. And bonds are not M0.... you are proving his point. Anyone holding USD in a deposit account or loaned it out is speculating that the value of USD will remain almost the same (willing to lose 2% to inflation). Of course someone holding a currency expects value to hold or go up. Unfortunately value of USD and other fiat goes down at exponential rate and by end of century will be practically worthless. Imagine paper bills in year 2100. No? Then you can imagine USA will digitize it's currency on some Blockchain of their own(this is a no brainer). Now imagine THE Fed changing interest rates (aka Coin Emission Rate) as they please. Pretty soon people will diversify their currency holdings away from a single country/government that can change emission (interest) rate at will and has onerous reporting and surveillance requirements. Logical conclusion is a supra/trans-national global currency something Bitcoin or Monero. "Granpa, was it true that when you were young you used to get paid in tree cotton papers?"
- danblick 9y ago
  I think you are conflating "blockchain" with "electronic payment". I can use my Visa card without needing a blockchain. And banks will settle the payment electronically without ever moving paper money. "No Timmy, I was not paid with paper money even in the 1990s."
  - acty1 9y ago
    Funny, I remember getting my first pay from summer job in 1999 in CASH, then later by check and then finally by dirext deposit (which I would withdraw in cotton paper form to spend). Maybe you lived in a more advanced Country than Canada or the USA. Curious where in the 1990's you would have been paid, and spend, purely digitally.
- rocqua 9y ago
  People like having recourse with trusted third parties. They also like universally accepted currency.
darawk 9y ago
Most ICOs are financing developer salaries. You can quibble about whether the ICOs are funding useful work - but they're definitely paying developers.
- alexasmyths 9y ago
  "Most ICOs are financing developer salaries." If they are underwritten by VC's you can be assured that the terms heavily favour them, and the immediate value is going into their pockets. It's the ultimate rub. A free, legal way to print Monopoly money that people will trade for real money.
  - darawk 9y ago
    You could say that about nearly any investment. The trick is picking the ones that aren't Monopoly money.
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
Your quest to find a distinction is going to continue to fall apart. Most forms of capital formation have no bearing on anything in physical goods and services economy, colloquially called "main street". ICOs are no different and I'm not sure why you feel the need to single them out. The point here is that people are growing this currency's economy by reinvesting in new projects within that economy, just like they do in national currency economies. Thats what the article is about, thats why I've been pointing out, and what is hard to accept about that?