16 ms·

To confirm your identify: national ID card, passport or driver license. To confirm your income: Your yearly income tax sheet, a payslip or your contract of emp

To confirm your identify: national ID card, passport or driver license. To confirm your income: Your yearly income tax sheet, a payslip or your contract of employment. There is really no reason whatsoever for credit check and background check agencies to exist. All they do is ask for these papers anyway.

harryh 9y ago
It's worth noting that the perpetrator in the bloomberg article had a fake driver's license in the name of the victim. So ID cards aren't a complete solution either.
- mcguire 9y ago
  Not to mention the other documents from the GP.
- u801e 9y ago
  Couldn't they verify the authenticity of the drivers license by contacting the department of motor vehicles? One shouldn't verify documents unless you're a member of the organization that issued them.
  - djsumdog 9y ago
    It was most likely a real license. Credit checks use the DL number. You need an SSN card to get a license or ID card and the SSN card is gained using security questions and has no photo, fingerprints or biometrics associated with it. I remember needing to get a new SSN card once and it was creepy how easy it was.
    - mgkimsal 9y ago
      Comparing photo on dl with photo from DMV might help.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  But you get that ID card using an SSN card. Other countries have a photo attached to your nation ID card and citizen identification number (and sometimes fingerprints too). But think about America right now. Do you honestly think we could get national ID numbers? Could you imagine people being asked for a DNA swab or fingerprint to establish their identity? The blow black would be monstrous, and I don't think it'd be entirely unjustified. With 1% of our population incarcerated or on probation, with no national health care and being the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world, there is good reason for Americans not to trust their government. Add in all the fundie religious people crying "sign of the beast" and Alex Jones followers yelling "national RFID chips" and you're stuck with a situation that cannot change.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > But you get that ID card using an SSN card. Not necessarily. Not all states require an SSN in order to issue an ID. > But think about America right now. Do you honestly think we could get national ID numbers? Unfortunately (for all the reasons you mentioned and more), we're pretty close, as the REAL ID system is about to take effect. That's going to be a huge problem for people living in the states that don't issue REAL IDs. It's also going to be a problem for legal immigrants and transgender people in every state.
    - uiri 9y ago
      Not all states require an SSN in order to issue an ID. I was under the impression that every single state requires an SSN to issue a driver's license or id card in order to track and enforce child support order across state lines. Which states don't require an SSN to issue an ID? Legal immigrants have passports, and ID cards/driver's licenses from their home country. I'm not sure what will require two forms of REAL ID compliant identification.
      - chimeracoder 9y ago
        > I was under the impression that every single state requires an SSN to issue a driver's license or id card in order to track and enforce child support order across state lines. Nope. If they did, the impetus behind the REAL ID act wouldn't even be relevant, because illegal immigrants wouldn't be able to obtain a drivers' license or state ID. > Which states don't require an SSN to issue an ID? California is the biggest one, and in fact, California makes it illegal to discriminate against anyone who has a driver's license but cannot show legal residency. Some states mark licenses as "not valid for identification" if they don't show legal residency, but it's usually subtle and easily overlooked or ignored. And the SSN isn't the only way to show legal residency, either. > Legal immigrants have passports, and ID cards/driver's licenses from their home country. For foreigners, passports are the only acceptable form of identification from foreign governments. Driver's licenses and other government IDs are not allowed, with the exception of driver's licenses from Canada.
aianus 9y ago
Credit has little to do with income. I have over $70k in various credit lines and have never shown any proof of income whatsoever. I just name a number and they accept it (after checking my all-important credit score).
- user5994461 9y ago
  Again, that's an American thing. They will distribute credits to whoever ask for them, as much as they can just to make money out of people. In non insane countries, you are considered debt-free when you have no credit, not when you accumulate credits and pay them with one another.
  - aianus 9y ago
    Giving people credit without seeing how much they already owe and how they're repaying it is insane. Rich people can go over their heads and default just as well as poor people. There is an obvious and valid need for credit reporting agencies to exist.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > In non insane countries, you are considered debt-free when you have no credit, not when you accumulate credits and pay them with one another. I'm not sure how you think the American system works if you think that "debt-free" has any meaning other than "no balances or debts outstanding".
alkonaut 9y ago
We have national id + complete index of people, but still have credit check agencies. The difference is probably that here those agencies aren't somehow trying to guarantee my identity. They just answer what credit rating my identity has.

harryh 9y ago

It's worth noting that the perpetrator in the bloomberg article had a fake driver's license in the name of the victim. So ID cards aren't a complete solution either.

mcguire 9y ago
Not to mention the other documents from the GP.
u801e 9y ago
Couldn't they verify the authenticity of the drivers license by contacting the department of motor vehicles? One shouldn't verify documents unless you're a member of the organization that issued them.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  It was most likely a real license. Credit checks use the DL number. You need an SSN card to get a license or ID card and the SSN card is gained using security questions and has no photo, fingerprints or biometrics associated with it. I remember needing to get a new SSN card once and it was creepy how easy it was.
  - mgkimsal 9y ago
    Comparing photo on dl with photo from DMV might help.
djsumdog 9y ago
But you get that ID card using an SSN card. Other countries have a photo attached to your nation ID card and citizen identification number (and sometimes fingerprints too). But think about America right now. Do you honestly think we could get national ID numbers? Could you imagine people being asked for a DNA swab or fingerprint to establish their identity? The blow black would be monstrous, and I don't think it'd be entirely unjustified. With 1% of our population incarcerated or on probation, with no national health care and being the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world, there is good reason for Americans not to trust their government. Add in all the fundie religious people crying "sign of the beast" and Alex Jones followers yelling "national RFID chips" and you're stuck with a situation that cannot change.
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > But you get that ID card using an SSN card. Not necessarily. Not all states require an SSN in order to issue an ID. > But think about America right now. Do you honestly think we could get national ID numbers? Unfortunately (for all the reasons you mentioned and more), we're pretty close, as the REAL ID system is about to take effect. That's going to be a huge problem for people living in the states that don't issue REAL IDs. It's also going to be a problem for legal immigrants and transgender people in every state.
  - uiri 9y ago
    Not all states require an SSN in order to issue an ID. I was under the impression that every single state requires an SSN to issue a driver's license or id card in order to track and enforce child support order across state lines. Which states don't require an SSN to issue an ID? Legal immigrants have passports, and ID cards/driver's licenses from their home country. I'm not sure what will require two forms of REAL ID compliant identification.
    - chimeracoder 9y ago
      > I was under the impression that every single state requires an SSN to issue a driver's license or id card in order to track and enforce child support order across state lines. Nope. If they did, the impetus behind the REAL ID act wouldn't even be relevant, because illegal immigrants wouldn't be able to obtain a drivers' license or state ID. > Which states don't require an SSN to issue an ID? California is the biggest one, and in fact, California makes it illegal to discriminate against anyone who has a driver's license but cannot show legal residency. Some states mark licenses as "not valid for identification" if they don't show legal residency, but it's usually subtle and easily overlooked or ignored. And the SSN isn't the only way to show legal residency, either. > Legal immigrants have passports, and ID cards/driver's licenses from their home country. For foreigners, passports are the only acceptable form of identification from foreign governments. Driver's licenses and other government IDs are not allowed, with the exception of driver's licenses from Canada.

aianus 9y ago

Credit has little to do with income. I have over $70k in various credit lines and have never shown any proof of income whatsoever. I just name a number and they accept it (after checking my all-important credit score).

user5994461 9y ago
Again, that's an American thing. They will distribute credits to whoever ask for them, as much as they can just to make money out of people. In non insane countries, you are considered debt-free when you have no credit, not when you accumulate credits and pay them with one another.
- aianus 9y ago
  Giving people credit without seeing how much they already owe and how they're repaying it is insane. Rich people can go over their heads and default just as well as poor people. There is an obvious and valid need for credit reporting agencies to exist.
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > In non insane countries, you are considered debt-free when you have no credit, not when you accumulate credits and pay them with one another. I'm not sure how you think the American system works if you think that "debt-free" has any meaning other than "no balances or debts outstanding".

alkonaut 9y ago

We have national id + complete index of people, but still have credit check agencies. The difference is probably that here those agencies aren't somehow trying to guarantee my identity. They just answer what credit rating my identity has.