8 ms·

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core a

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you lay down, so you can get lost in work (most don't get backpain while laying down). The data on back surgeries is not good, plain physical therapy does better. If you need something for depression I would look into edibles with lots of cbd - do your best to stay away from opioids. ALSO: Research the anti-inflammatory nabumetone. I don't know why doctors don't bring it up. (not additive, no high)

yodsanklai 9y ago
> I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing Do you work remotely? I assume laying isn't an option in an office. Even standing, it may be frowned upon in more conservative work places.
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  Depends I guess. I know places (~100 people) where their chief architect sleeps on the floor with his feet sticking out from under his desk in the middle of the day.
toasterlovin 9y ago
If you're enthusiastic about milk and believe that strength is the way out of pain, I have the best recommendation for you: Starting Strength.
- moretai 9y ago
  I'm enthusiastic about milk, but why is it so good for us?
  - tsomctl 9y ago
    If you read Starting Strength, you'd know. To summarize, it has everything baby calves need to grow strong, which is also similar to what humans need to grow strong. Lots of protein, along with some sugar and lots of vitamins and minerals.
    - Nihilartikel 9y ago
      I might add, if the lactose gives you grief, invest in some kefir grains and ferment it out. You get some extra b vitamins and folate in the exchange. Plus it's hella tasty.
      - toasterlovin 9y ago
        I'll just add that, in my experience, milk and coffee do not mix well. YMMV.
  - peteretep 9y ago
    He recommends drinking a gallon of milk a day, aka GOMAD.
    - moretai 9y ago
      go crzy
      - toasterlovin 9y ago
        To wit: GOMAD + barbells got me from 205 lbs to 305 lbs body weight.
- astockwell 9y ago
  +1 to Starting Strength
sg47 9y ago
+1 to this. I suffered from back pain for a long time. Long distance running made it worse. Running made my core weaker and my back pain became worse. Physical therapy did not help. MRI scan revealed a 5 degree scoliosis and a slightly bulging disc (L5/S1). What has helped since then is massaging my glutes thoroughly with a lacrosse ball regularly. Foam rolling my back, glutes, ITB and quads. Strength training for the back, core and upper body in general. Before starting strength training, focus on relieving tightness for a couple of weeks.
- hellogoodbyeeee 9y ago
  > What has helped since then is massaging my glutes thoroughly with a lacrosse ball regularly. Foam rolling my back, glutes, ITB and quads. Strength training for the back, core and upper body in general. For the record, this is what a good physical therapist would have prescribed.
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  Those Glutius Medii (sp?) are tough cookies!!! Core and stability work are often more important than just strength. Also the hip flexors are really key too. My adductors and I have a love/hate relationship. :)
  - kswahl1 9y ago
    This. Hip flexors are key especially if you sit a lot. Also doing the cobra stretch multiple times a day has helped a lot.
- ghthor 9y ago
  Running and walking are the ultimate efficent exercises homo sapiens. In a perfect world all humans, within the standard deviation, are taught first and foremost how to care for there personal physical health from the time they can walk till they die. Walking and running would be the most efficient exercise for all humans. IMHO The issues that come from running are related to where you start from lacking knowledge and lacking physical health. Knowledge guides interpretation of pain(what different types of pain mean, when to stop when to push through). Understanding pain is a communication skill that very few people will teach you, but in my opinion is more valuable then literacy. Knowledge also enables positive feedback loops concerning form and efficiency of movement. Physical health is the structal integrity of the core and stabilizer muscles. Each of these items are on a sliding scale, and somewhere in that scale is a tipping point where if you pass under it you are hurting yourself instead of healing yourself. I hypothesize that 80% of our population falls on the injury side, but that this could be solved with education and PT. I'm glad you didn't give up, or had the nerve to push past anyone saying "that's just the way you are, you can't fix that" because I feel that statement couldn't be further from the truth.
pstuart 9y ago
Sometimes you're just physically fucked. In my case it took a microdiscectomy to end the agony.
ianai 9y ago
What do you so for core conditioning and strength? Also I'm looking for ways to put together a workstation in the horizontal position
- moretai 9y ago
  I'd seriously consider Yoga. But to get started, deep breathing I feel has had an affect on my overall core strength. At times, you'll feel like a moron. Deep, deep breathes. I'd suggest starting off for session of like 5 or 10 minutes. It doesn't matter how you do it. Just breathe deep as a practice. But if you need something to get started: something that's standard is X second in, X second hold, X second release. You probably won't be able to do 8 seconds. So start with 4 seconds, and move up. Then there's deadlifts, squats, bench. Core functional movements. You should feel your core expanded, and activated. You should be recruiting these muscles when doing these movements. But yoga. for real dog.
  - zacurry 9y ago
    Yoga is not recommended for people with lower back pain. When I started having back pain, somebody suggested to me yoga. Everything went great for three months, the pain was still there but lesser , and I felt good and fit. Then one day, while doing surya namaskar, I felt a pain ripping through my spine and fell down, unable to move. I consulted an M.D , and he immediately asked me if I had been doing surya namaskar. Tldr; yoga is great , but not for all.
    - rsync 9y ago
      "Then one day, while doing surya namaskar, I felt a pain ripping through my spine and fell down, unable to move. I consulted an M.D , and he immediately asked me if I had been doing surya namaskar." This is important. Yoga is very powerful and I think everyone should incorporate yoga movements into their fitness regime. However, typical yoga classes and even established yoga movement series (like the Ashtonga primary series) are heavily weighted towards forward folding/bending which is the last thing you want to do with a weak/injured back. This doesn't mean you shouldn't do yoga - it means that you should understand the physiology of a bulging/blow disc and build up your strength (perhaps with other yoga exercises/poses) to the point that you are strong enough to do that forward folding ... and even then maintain caution and moderation. With a fully rehabbed/asymptomatic L4/L5 I am doing heavy freeweight squats and deadlifts and even inverting during BJJ - but I would still be cautious and even modify portions of a typical yoga class ...
zacurry 9y ago
> I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing If you don't mind, could please tell me how do you lie down and work ? Since I started suffering from back pain , I was thinking if something like this was possible. I was also afraid it would fuck up my eyes, have you had any problems of that sort ?
- rsync 9y ago
  "If you don't mind, could please tell me how do you lie down and work ?" I have three "workstations" at my office - two of them take place at my adjustable height desk. I can stand or sit. I also have a full sized couch that I can lie flat on. I prop my laptop up on a pillow just like you might at home. I move between these three positions as it suits me and can avoid completely any kind of fatigue or unhealthy postures.
- peteretep 9y ago
  Laying down was a large part of fixing my RSI. On a bed, on my back, head propped on a pillow, knees at a 45 degree angle, bottom of laptop laying on hip bones. This was my primary working position for a few years, and I didn't see any negatives.
- learc83 9y ago
  Take a look at zero g workstations.
o_____________o 9y ago
How is nabumetone better than any other NSAID?
- epmaybe 9y ago
  That's what I came here to say. It's a selective COX-2 inhibitor so maybe you could argue it's like celecoxib (which is prescribed for some types of pain, mainly acute). The point being that back pain and most chronic pain isn't really inflammatory, save neuropathic pain.
paulryanrogers 9y ago
Glad you found what works for you. Cow milk doesn't work for everyone as some are lactose intolerant.
Disruptive_Dave 9y ago
Slight caveat here: for those with sacroiliitis or SI joint issues, "sitting down is bad for you" is NOT necessarily the answer. In many cases standing is worse for you than sitting. Don't prescribe to generalities, of course, is the lesson.
- ksenzee 9y ago
  Thank you for pointing this out. I have chronic SI joint problems, and people always think I should be standing. Would not help.
- ghthor 9y ago
  Correct, these structure areas are some of the most complex within our bodies. There are hundreds of tiny stabilizer muscles in our backs that can be injured. Each disc can have an almost infinite number of ways it can bulge, hemorage or slip. This entire structure is protecting the spinal column and can interfere or damage all kinds of different parts of the body through the nerve connections. I hypothesize that a majority of depression suffering is sourced by subtle spinal/nerve injuries, which the brain could interpret as death. Once a strong enough signal develops in the brain that's saying, "you're in pain, all the time, you probably should isolate yourself and kill yourself" it's not hard to see how that could lead to depression and suicidal thoughts.

yodsanklai 9y ago

> I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing Do you work remotely? I assume laying isn't an option in an office. Even standing, it may be frowned upon in more conservative work places.

hkmurakami 9y ago
Depends I guess. I know places (~100 people) where their chief architect sleeps on the floor with his feet sticking out from under his desk in the middle of the day.

toasterlovin 9y ago

If you're enthusiastic about milk and believe that strength is the way out of pain, I have the best recommendation for you: Starting Strength.

moretai 9y ago
I'm enthusiastic about milk, but why is it so good for us?
- tsomctl 9y ago
  If you read Starting Strength, you'd know. To summarize, it has everything baby calves need to grow strong, which is also similar to what humans need to grow strong. Lots of protein, along with some sugar and lots of vitamins and minerals.
  - Nihilartikel 9y ago
    I might add, if the lactose gives you grief, invest in some kefir grains and ferment it out. You get some extra b vitamins and folate in the exchange. Plus it's hella tasty.
    - toasterlovin 9y ago
      I'll just add that, in my experience, milk and coffee do not mix well. YMMV.
- peteretep 9y ago
  He recommends drinking a gallon of milk a day, aka GOMAD.
  - moretai 9y ago
    go crzy
    - toasterlovin 9y ago
      To wit: GOMAD + barbells got me from 205 lbs to 305 lbs body weight.
astockwell 9y ago
+1 to Starting Strength

sg47 9y ago

+1 to this. I suffered from back pain for a long time. Long distance running made it worse. Running made my core weaker and my back pain became worse. Physical therapy did not help. MRI scan revealed a 5 degree scoliosis and a slightly bulging disc (L5/S1). What has helped since then is massaging my glutes thoroughly with a lacrosse ball regularly. Foam rolling my back, glutes, ITB and quads. Strength training for the back, core and upper body in general. Before starting strength training, focus on relieving tightness for a couple of weeks.

hellogoodbyeeee 9y ago
> What has helped since then is massaging my glutes thoroughly with a lacrosse ball regularly. Foam rolling my back, glutes, ITB and quads. Strength training for the back, core and upper body in general. For the record, this is what a good physical therapist would have prescribed.
hkmurakami 9y ago
Those Glutius Medii (sp?) are tough cookies!!! Core and stability work are often more important than just strength. Also the hip flexors are really key too. My adductors and I have a love/hate relationship. :)
- kswahl1 9y ago
  This. Hip flexors are key especially if you sit a lot. Also doing the cobra stretch multiple times a day has helped a lot.
ghthor 9y ago
Running and walking are the ultimate efficent exercises homo sapiens. In a perfect world all humans, within the standard deviation, are taught first and foremost how to care for there personal physical health from the time they can walk till they die. Walking and running would be the most efficient exercise for all humans. IMHO The issues that come from running are related to where you start from lacking knowledge and lacking physical health. Knowledge guides interpretation of pain(what different types of pain mean, when to stop when to push through). Understanding pain is a communication skill that very few people will teach you, but in my opinion is more valuable then literacy. Knowledge also enables positive feedback loops concerning form and efficiency of movement. Physical health is the structal integrity of the core and stabilizer muscles. Each of these items are on a sliding scale, and somewhere in that scale is a tipping point where if you pass under it you are hurting yourself instead of healing yourself. I hypothesize that 80% of our population falls on the injury side, but that this could be solved with education and PT. I'm glad you didn't give up, or had the nerve to push past anyone saying "that's just the way you are, you can't fix that" because I feel that statement couldn't be further from the truth.

pstuart 9y ago

Sometimes you're just physically fucked. In my case it took a microdiscectomy to end the agony.

ianai 9y ago

What do you so for core conditioning and strength? Also I'm looking for ways to put together a workstation in the horizontal position

moretai 9y ago
I'd seriously consider Yoga. But to get started, deep breathing I feel has had an affect on my overall core strength. At times, you'll feel like a moron. Deep, deep breathes. I'd suggest starting off for session of like 5 or 10 minutes. It doesn't matter how you do it. Just breathe deep as a practice. But if you need something to get started: something that's standard is X second in, X second hold, X second release. You probably won't be able to do 8 seconds. So start with 4 seconds, and move up. Then there's deadlifts, squats, bench. Core functional movements. You should feel your core expanded, and activated. You should be recruiting these muscles when doing these movements. But yoga. for real dog.
- zacurry 9y ago
  Yoga is not recommended for people with lower back pain. When I started having back pain, somebody suggested to me yoga. Everything went great for three months, the pain was still there but lesser , and I felt good and fit. Then one day, while doing surya namaskar, I felt a pain ripping through my spine and fell down, unable to move. I consulted an M.D , and he immediately asked me if I had been doing surya namaskar. Tldr; yoga is great , but not for all.
  - rsync 9y ago
    "Then one day, while doing surya namaskar, I felt a pain ripping through my spine and fell down, unable to move. I consulted an M.D , and he immediately asked me if I had been doing surya namaskar." This is important. Yoga is very powerful and I think everyone should incorporate yoga movements into their fitness regime. However, typical yoga classes and even established yoga movement series (like the Ashtonga primary series) are heavily weighted towards forward folding/bending which is the last thing you want to do with a weak/injured back. This doesn't mean you shouldn't do yoga - it means that you should understand the physiology of a bulging/blow disc and build up your strength (perhaps with other yoga exercises/poses) to the point that you are strong enough to do that forward folding ... and even then maintain caution and moderation. With a fully rehabbed/asymptomatic L4/L5 I am doing heavy freeweight squats and deadlifts and even inverting during BJJ - but I would still be cautious and even modify portions of a typical yoga class ...

zacurry 9y ago

> I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing If you don't mind, could please tell me how do you lie down and work ? Since I started suffering from back pain , I was thinking if something like this was possible. I was also afraid it would fuck up my eyes, have you had any problems of that sort ?

rsync 9y ago
"If you don't mind, could please tell me how do you lie down and work ?" I have three "workstations" at my office - two of them take place at my adjustable height desk. I can stand or sit. I also have a full sized couch that I can lie flat on. I prop my laptop up on a pillow just like you might at home. I move between these three positions as it suits me and can avoid completely any kind of fatigue or unhealthy postures.
peteretep 9y ago
Laying down was a large part of fixing my RSI. On a bed, on my back, head propped on a pillow, knees at a 45 degree angle, bottom of laptop laying on hip bones. This was my primary working position for a few years, and I didn't see any negatives.
learc83 9y ago
Take a look at zero g workstations.

o_____________o 9y ago

How is nabumetone better than any other NSAID?

epmaybe 9y ago
That's what I came here to say. It's a selective COX-2 inhibitor so maybe you could argue it's like celecoxib (which is prescribed for some types of pain, mainly acute). The point being that back pain and most chronic pain isn't really inflammatory, save neuropathic pain.

paulryanrogers 9y ago

Glad you found what works for you. Cow milk doesn't work for everyone as some are lactose intolerant.

Disruptive_Dave 9y ago

Slight caveat here: for those with sacroiliitis or SI joint issues, "sitting down is bad for you" is NOT necessarily the answer. In many cases standing is worse for you than sitting. Don't prescribe to generalities, of course, is the lesson.

ksenzee 9y ago
Thank you for pointing this out. I have chronic SI joint problems, and people always think I should be standing. Would not help.
ghthor 9y ago
Correct, these structure areas are some of the most complex within our bodies. There are hundreds of tiny stabilizer muscles in our backs that can be injured. Each disc can have an almost infinite number of ways it can bulge, hemorage or slip. This entire structure is protecting the spinal column and can interfere or damage all kinds of different parts of the body through the nerve connections. I hypothesize that a majority of depression suffering is sourced by subtle spinal/nerve injuries, which the brain could interpret as death. Once a strong enough signal develops in the brain that's saying, "you're in pain, all the time, you probably should isolate yourself and kill yourself" it's not hard to see how that could lead to depression and suicidal thoughts.