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"I don't think it's entitlement. I think a lot of people want to see real OSS; where devs have the time and energy to work together to make really good tooling.

"I don't think it's entitlement. I think a lot of people want to see real OSS; where devs have the time and energy to work together to make really good tooling. We want more projects like DarkTable. We want spare time projects that become amazing that people care about, not more half free/half enterprise stuff." That sounds kinda like entitlement. "We want" these things, but "we" only want them if someone has the ability, resources, and time, to do it for free as a "spare time project"? I would argue that's a world where the only large-scale software we can use comes from major corporations (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.), because they have the ability to do "pure" OSS tools that serve their bottom line indirectly. Also, "real OSS" is what we do and have always done. It's also what the Caddy folks do. The code is out there under an OSS license. This is the kind of attitude that makes it difficult sometimes to want to do any OSS in a way that isn't corporate-sponsored. My ideal OSS world has a lot of independent developers, not just employees of the giants pushing their particular visions of the future. That's not possible without some level of funding, and since people don't donate, one has to come up with other ways to incent paying for OSS development. We've got hundreds of thousands of lines of systems management code to maintain...that's not a thing that happens merely for fun.

dunkelheit 9y ago
> that's a world where the only large-scale software we can use comes from major corporations (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.), because they have the ability to do "pure" OSS tools that serve their bottom line indirectly. I think this is a major aspect of the issue. Users of open-source software have been conditioned by these corporations to expect a "no immediate strings attached" license and an almost commercial level of free support provided by salaried full-time employees. What these corporations gain from their OSS projects is often not immediately obvious and thus the public is okay with it. Now when a smaller company tries to gain something from their OSS work in a more immediate way, they get a violent push-back with people accusing them of not doing open-source "properly". But the problem is that we haven't yet discovered the way to do it "properly" - when commercializing open-source projects works it is mainly by accident (well, or by superhuman marketing feats) and for every successful project there are a lot of undeservedly failed ones.

dunkelheit 9y ago

> that's a world where the only large-scale software we can use comes from major corporations (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.), because they have the ability to do "pure" OSS tools that serve their bottom line indirectly. I think this is a major aspect of the issue. Users of open-source software have been conditioned by these corporations to expect a "no immediate strings attached" license and an almost commercial level of free support provided by salaried full-time employees. What these corporations gain from their OSS projects is often not immediately obvious and thus the public is okay with it. Now when a smaller company tries to gain something from their OSS work in a more immediate way, they get a violent push-back with people accusing them of not doing open-source "properly". But the problem is that we haven't yet discovered the way to do it "properly" - when commercializing open-source projects works it is mainly by accident (well, or by superhuman marketing feats) and for every successful project there are a lot of undeservedly failed ones.