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> Rumor has it that the Saturn V only had fins because Werner von Braun decided that a rocket without fins just didn't look right, and ordered the engineers to

> Rumor has it that the Saturn V only had fins because Werner von Braun decided that a rocket without fins just didn't look right, and ordered the engineers to add them, even though they were so small with respect to the size of the rocket stack that they were very solidly inside the boundary layer and had no effect whatsoever. Hah! Thanks for this tidbit, I had never stopped to think through their presence on the saturn 5, and absenece on other vehicles.

jawbone3 9y ago
The russians have the correct solution of simply adding rockets vaugely looking like finns instead of fake fins!
usrusr 9y ago
According to von Braun's Popular Science AMA it was a safety feature: "It is in the area of crew safety that fins come in handy. In Saturn V the booster fins are not to provide perfect aerodynamic stability under all conditions - that would take fins of excessive size. But the fins reduce the aerodynamic instability enough to make sure that the astronauts can safely abort, no matter what technical trouble may afflict their space vehicle." ( https://books.google.de/books?id=MiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA184 https://books.google.de/books?id=MiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA184 , continued from https://books.google.de/books?id=MiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA68 https://books.google.de/books?id=MiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA68 ) Both could be true at once, just like when bicycle helmets are worn more as a fashion statement than out of confidence in their protective value. Or maybe he was just squelching rumors.
- GlenTheMachine 9y ago
  Answering this accurately would require a lot more information about the aerodynamics of the Saturn V than I have. But I suspect it was the latter - he was justifying a design decision after the fact. I say that because for the fins to do any good at all, boundary layer or not, the launch vehicle has to be moving at speed. I don't think a successful crew capsule abort would be likely past a couple of hundred miles per hour. If that.
  - yaakov34 9y ago
    > I don't think a successful crew capsule abort would be likely past a couple of hundred miles per hour. If that. That's not true at all. Every manned space launcher has provisions for bringing the crew down safely on a suborbital trajectory if orbit can't be reached. You would hardly give up on your astronauts just because, say, some stage failed to light. It's not like with an unmanned satellite, where it either gets to orbit or crashes/burns up. Apollo certainly had provisions for crew abort all the way to orbit, which are discussed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_abort_modes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_abort_modes
    - GlenTheMachine 9y ago
      I agree that they had those provisions. I'm just skeptical about them working if the primary stack ACS went south. The crew capsule didn't have its own ACS, IIRC. It would have likely entered a high rate tumble shortly after an abort separation. It would have been worth a shot, just like jumping out of a speeding car about to go over a cliff. But you probably die anyway.

jawbone3 9y ago

The russians have the correct solution of simply adding rockets vaugely looking like finns instead of fake fins!

usrusr 9y ago

According to von Braun's Popular Science AMA it was a safety feature: "It is in the area of crew safety that fins come in handy. In Saturn V the booster fins are not to provide perfect aerodynamic stability under all conditions - that would take fins of excessive size. But the fins reduce the aerodynamic instability enough to make sure that the astronauts can safely abort, no matter what technical trouble may afflict their space vehicle." ( https://books.google.de/books?id=MiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA184 https://books.google.de/books?id=MiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA184 , continued from https://books.google.de/books?id=MiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA68 https://books.google.de/books?id=MiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA68 ) Both could be true at once, just like when bicycle helmets are worn more as a fashion statement than out of confidence in their protective value. Or maybe he was just squelching rumors.

GlenTheMachine 9y ago
Answering this accurately would require a lot more information about the aerodynamics of the Saturn V than I have. But I suspect it was the latter - he was justifying a design decision after the fact. I say that because for the fins to do any good at all, boundary layer or not, the launch vehicle has to be moving at speed. I don't think a successful crew capsule abort would be likely past a couple of hundred miles per hour. If that.
- yaakov34 9y ago
  > I don't think a successful crew capsule abort would be likely past a couple of hundred miles per hour. If that. That's not true at all. Every manned space launcher has provisions for bringing the crew down safely on a suborbital trajectory if orbit can't be reached. You would hardly give up on your astronauts just because, say, some stage failed to light. It's not like with an unmanned satellite, where it either gets to orbit or crashes/burns up. Apollo certainly had provisions for crew abort all the way to orbit, which are discussed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_abort_modes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_abort_modes
  - GlenTheMachine 9y ago
    I agree that they had those provisions. I'm just skeptical about them working if the primary stack ACS went south. The crew capsule didn't have its own ACS, IIRC. It would have likely entered a high rate tumble shortly after an abort separation. It would have been worth a shot, just like jumping out of a speeding car about to go over a cliff. But you probably die anyway.