4 ms·

I'm a millennial. I don't want any kind of suburb. I refuse to live anywhere that isn't well-connected/dense enough to provide a good lifestyle completely car

I'm a millennial. I don't want any kind of suburb. I refuse to live anywhere that isn't well-connected/dense enough to provide a good lifestyle completely car-free (i.e. all travel is quick, ubiquitous and convenient on foot/bike/public transportation). I do not ever wish to drive and this is not possible in any suburban development.

Armisael16 9y ago
No one ever said that all millennials want to live in the suburb, so...
pavel_lishin 9y ago
I feel the same way that you do, but I worry that the realities of the housing market are going to drive my family to some stupid suburb where I have to get a car and spend 30 minutes every morning screaming inside it.
- francisofascii 9y ago
  I suggest looking into 'inner' suburbs or pre WW2 housing built around a town. At least that allows you to walk to stores, schools, and usually closer to a city. The trade-off is an older house and possibly a higher cost.
jedberg 9y ago
Out of curiosity, do you have kids? It's mighty convenient to have a car with all the stuff in it and plenty of space to park that car nearby, and also lots of space for the kids to play outside.
- MBlume 9y ago
  I have an 11-month-old and any given time I put him in a carseat it's 50-50 whether he'll holler until we get there. I take BART now even more than I used to.
- alistairSH 9y ago
  Carry less stuff? The amount of crap people haul around for their kids is astonishing. The only reason I drove anywhere with my son was because our region wasn't easily walk-able. That, and travel sports (though if the immediate area was walkable, that would have been reduced to weekend games). He's since moved out, and we've traded our single-family for a TH in a denser area (though still suburban). I walk to work, walk to the park, have access to many trails, and only drive on the weekends to run errands. It was more QOL-improving than I ever imagined. Anyway, I've grown to hate suburban sprawl. I find dense suburb packed around transit to be much better from a QOL perspective.
- francisofascii 9y ago
  We have kids, we struck a balance of one car. Older kid is able to walk to school, wife drives to work, and I can take the bus or ride a bike to work.
- santaclaus 9y ago
  > kids? I have lots of carless friends with kids in NYC, and they seem to get by no problem.
  - dsr_ 9y ago
    Give NYC-level public transit to any city and that can happen.
- jimktrains2 9y ago
  My wife and I bought a house in pre-car suburb that was exactly what we wanted: dense, public transit, lots of places to go on foot (doctor, library, municipal building, 3 separate shopping districts, hardware/general store, dozen parks and playgrounds, &c). We wanted a good school, but weren't willing to sacrifice our way of life, and we found, I think, the perfect spot. (We love our neighbors too, but didn't know that until after we moved in). When we looked at places I gave an immediate veto if there wasn't a sidewalk or if there wasn't a trolley stop a within 10min - 15 min walk, or a bus within 5min. Our elementary school is an 8min walk, the middle and high schools are about 20min. We only drive when public transit would more than double the amount of time it would take or if we need to go where there isn't transit. My wife will also drive for the large grocery runs each month, but the week-to-week is put in the stroller and carried home. We enjoy this. Cars drive us nuts, not to mention the hassle of parking.
  - cbcoutinho 9y ago
    Where is this? In the states, suburbs were dreamed up along with the assumption of having a car - so the idea of a 'non-car' suburb is pretty foreign to me
    - jimktrains2 9y ago
      Just south of Pittsburgh in the Mt Lebanon and Dormont area. My area was built up in Tue 1920s before having a car, let lone multiple cars for a family was a given. I'm not sure what you'd call this if not a suburb. The exurban areas are the ones from the 50s on that are nothing but houses arranged in the worst way possible. Honestly, a lot of the first and second ring suburbs are like this. The Mon Valley (suburbs and towns along one of our rivers to the south east) is set up like this, but has been decimated by the loss of industry. (Mt Lebanon is a township so part of it does go down the super low density route, but not the older sections.)
- Xcelerate 9y ago
  > and also lots of space for the kids to play outside. Do kids still play outside these days? I'm only 27, but from what I've seen of the 6-18 crowd they tend to be stuck in front of a screen most of the day.
alkonaut 9y ago
I said that too. And I'm not a millenial but a 70's kid. And then I had kids of my own and now I can't imagine not having a car to stuff the kids into, or a big backyard so I don't have to walk to the park with them to play. It's not like I wan't to drive everywhere, it's just the tradeoff I'm happy to accept in order to have a house with a big backyard for the kids to play in. So this is nothing new. People have always preferred one thing, and changed their minds when having kids. I imagine I'll be going back to my previous lifestyle (Urban instead of suburban) when the kids can take care of themselves.
- paulddraper 9y ago
  And a car is darn convenient for a family-sized weekly grocery trip.
  - jacobolus 9y ago
    Dramatically more convenient is having 3 grocery stores within 4 blocks, so you can buy groceries in small batches every other day, or wheel a wagon over for a larger load.
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    I'm surprised you don't have better delivery options in the US, in the UK the main supermarkets all offer good internet ordering.
    - alkonaut 9y ago
      I have excellent delivery options but I want to see what I'm buying so I very much prefer driving to the grocery store. Even if 90% of the products are of the kind you can buy without seeing (detergents, canned foods etc) the stuff I need to see like fresh fish/fresh meat etc is so important for what else I'll need. I could probably get a lot of the recurring purchases delivered but I'm not going to shop for groceries any less than 2-3 times per week anyway.
      - 9y ago
KGIII 9y ago
My nearest neighbor is a half mile away. The nearest village is 24 miles away, and has ~1200 residents. Today, I had three moose come visit my lawn. A few days ago, it was a rabbit, but I ate him for breakfast the following day. Tonight, I had trout caught from a stream on my property. I don't think my age is salient, as I know plenty of young people who claim they'd love to live like I do. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's lots of different desires, and they encompass all age groups. I used to live in cities. I'm so happy to be out. Then again, I do love driving.
- sputknick 9y ago
  How is your internet access? I always wonder how connected I would be if I lived like that.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    I have 15 down and 2 up, DSL. I paid the telco for the lines and for something called a DSLAM. I tried both satellite and wireless, but they sucked.
criddell 9y ago
When I was 20, I thought exactly the same. Now that I'm closing in on 50 I love life in the 'burbs. When self-driving cars are available I will likely move a bit further out of the city where I can have more space.

Armisael16 9y ago

No one ever said that all millennials want to live in the suburb, so...

pavel_lishin 9y ago

I feel the same way that you do, but I worry that the realities of the housing market are going to drive my family to some stupid suburb where I have to get a car and spend 30 minutes every morning screaming inside it.

francisofascii 9y ago
I suggest looking into 'inner' suburbs or pre WW2 housing built around a town. At least that allows you to walk to stores, schools, and usually closer to a city. The trade-off is an older house and possibly a higher cost.

jedberg 9y ago

Out of curiosity, do you have kids? It's mighty convenient to have a car with all the stuff in it and plenty of space to park that car nearby, and also lots of space for the kids to play outside.

MBlume 9y ago
I have an 11-month-old and any given time I put him in a carseat it's 50-50 whether he'll holler until we get there. I take BART now even more than I used to.
alistairSH 9y ago
Carry less stuff? The amount of crap people haul around for their kids is astonishing. The only reason I drove anywhere with my son was because our region wasn't easily walk-able. That, and travel sports (though if the immediate area was walkable, that would have been reduced to weekend games). He's since moved out, and we've traded our single-family for a TH in a denser area (though still suburban). I walk to work, walk to the park, have access to many trails, and only drive on the weekends to run errands. It was more QOL-improving than I ever imagined. Anyway, I've grown to hate suburban sprawl. I find dense suburb packed around transit to be much better from a QOL perspective.
francisofascii 9y ago
We have kids, we struck a balance of one car. Older kid is able to walk to school, wife drives to work, and I can take the bus or ride a bike to work.
santaclaus 9y ago
> kids? I have lots of carless friends with kids in NYC, and they seem to get by no problem.
- dsr_ 9y ago
  Give NYC-level public transit to any city and that can happen.
jimktrains2 9y ago
My wife and I bought a house in pre-car suburb that was exactly what we wanted: dense, public transit, lots of places to go on foot (doctor, library, municipal building, 3 separate shopping districts, hardware/general store, dozen parks and playgrounds, &c). We wanted a good school, but weren't willing to sacrifice our way of life, and we found, I think, the perfect spot. (We love our neighbors too, but didn't know that until after we moved in). When we looked at places I gave an immediate veto if there wasn't a sidewalk or if there wasn't a trolley stop a within 10min - 15 min walk, or a bus within 5min. Our elementary school is an 8min walk, the middle and high schools are about 20min. We only drive when public transit would more than double the amount of time it would take or if we need to go where there isn't transit. My wife will also drive for the large grocery runs each month, but the week-to-week is put in the stroller and carried home. We enjoy this. Cars drive us nuts, not to mention the hassle of parking.
- cbcoutinho 9y ago
  Where is this? In the states, suburbs were dreamed up along with the assumption of having a car - so the idea of a 'non-car' suburb is pretty foreign to me
  - jimktrains2 9y ago
    Just south of Pittsburgh in the Mt Lebanon and Dormont area. My area was built up in Tue 1920s before having a car, let lone multiple cars for a family was a given. I'm not sure what you'd call this if not a suburb. The exurban areas are the ones from the 50s on that are nothing but houses arranged in the worst way possible. Honestly, a lot of the first and second ring suburbs are like this. The Mon Valley (suburbs and towns along one of our rivers to the south east) is set up like this, but has been decimated by the loss of industry. (Mt Lebanon is a township so part of it does go down the super low density route, but not the older sections.)
Xcelerate 9y ago
> and also lots of space for the kids to play outside. Do kids still play outside these days? I'm only 27, but from what I've seen of the 6-18 crowd they tend to be stuck in front of a screen most of the day.

alkonaut 9y ago

I said that too. And I'm not a millenial but a 70's kid. And then I had kids of my own and now I can't imagine not having a car to stuff the kids into, or a big backyard so I don't have to walk to the park with them to play. It's not like I wan't to drive everywhere, it's just the tradeoff I'm happy to accept in order to have a house with a big backyard for the kids to play in. So this is nothing new. People have always preferred one thing, and changed their minds when having kids. I imagine I'll be going back to my previous lifestyle (Urban instead of suburban) when the kids can take care of themselves.

paulddraper 9y ago
And a car is darn convenient for a family-sized weekly grocery trip.
- jacobolus 9y ago
  Dramatically more convenient is having 3 grocery stores within 4 blocks, so you can buy groceries in small batches every other day, or wheel a wagon over for a larger load.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  I'm surprised you don't have better delivery options in the US, in the UK the main supermarkets all offer good internet ordering.
  - alkonaut 9y ago
    I have excellent delivery options but I want to see what I'm buying so I very much prefer driving to the grocery store. Even if 90% of the products are of the kind you can buy without seeing (detergents, canned foods etc) the stuff I need to see like fresh fish/fresh meat etc is so important for what else I'll need. I could probably get a lot of the recurring purchases delivered but I'm not going to shop for groceries any less than 2-3 times per week anyway.
    - 9y ago

KGIII 9y ago

My nearest neighbor is a half mile away. The nearest village is 24 miles away, and has ~1200 residents. Today, I had three moose come visit my lawn. A few days ago, it was a rabbit, but I ate him for breakfast the following day. Tonight, I had trout caught from a stream on my property. I don't think my age is salient, as I know plenty of young people who claim they'd love to live like I do. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's lots of different desires, and they encompass all age groups. I used to live in cities. I'm so happy to be out. Then again, I do love driving.

sputknick 9y ago
How is your internet access? I always wonder how connected I would be if I lived like that.
- KGIII 9y ago
  I have 15 down and 2 up, DSL. I paid the telco for the lines and for something called a DSLAM. I tried both satellite and wireless, but they sucked.

criddell 9y ago

When I was 20, I thought exactly the same. Now that I'm closing in on 50 I love life in the 'burbs. When self-driving cars are available I will likely move a bit further out of the city where I can have more space.