4 ms·

I've been to the bay area many many times for work and really there is no way I would want to go work there, money is not everything when you see the quality of

by Thaxll 9y ago

I've been to the bay area many many times for work and really there is no way I would want to go work there, money is not everything when you see the quality of life you get in Canada: - raise your family in a safe environment - not seeing crazy / homeless people in the streets - being able to buy a house - health insurance - public transport / traffic ect ...

kojeovo 9y ago
- not seeing crazy / homeless people in the streets I live and work downtown Toronto and see plenty of crazy and homeless people each day. Especially around my condo in one of the busiest areas in the city.
X86BSD 9y ago
You just described Kansas City, actually that fits a good chunk of the Midwest. I'll take my wide open space and rolling hills to the insane cost of a shoebox to live in, in California anyday.
- pwthornton 9y ago
  In most of the Midwest, where I am from, you'll have to be basically married to your car, rarely get to walk anywhere and the wide open spaces will be blotted by hideous strip malls and McMansion developments. It's appalling.
  - JBReefer 9y ago
    Not the central parts of Kansas City, which is where I'm from. You can walk or bike everywhere in the urban rectangle from River Market to Waldo, and the bus is workable (but imperfect). It's also a short drive to 98% of where you'd want to go, and it's insanely cheap. I would move back immediately if my family wasn't here in NYC. People have really lost their minds since the election and I'm tired of only ever hearing about politics. I do agree that a lot of Midwestern suburbs are horribly depressing and conformist, but there's a lot more to the Midwest.
    - X86BSD 9y ago
      The new street car is awesome! especially for visitors. And it's free. It was well worth the money and they have plans to expand it to the northland as well. If we could get it to run from KCI to the plaza it would be a huge boon. Bike rentals are downtown although I have never used them provided by the city. I don't seem to have a problem with the burbs like some do. Maybe I am used to it. I like having wide open spaces. I don't like people piled up on top of me. And I like having a car. I can go anywhere. I can head to Branson for the weekend or Omaha. I can even skate out to Colorado if I wish. I'm not stuck taking the slow AF Amtrak or a bus (shiver), car = freedom.
      - pwthornton 9y ago
        Being able to walk/wheel chair places regardless of your income or station is freedom. If my car breaks down today, I'm not stranded where I live. I can walk to everything I need, including my job if I was really committed (but I'd rather take the train). There is no reason that American suburbs are so hostile to walkability. It's very bad for human health (lack of movement and all of the air pollution that cars cause). And of Course sprawling, car-dependent lifestyles are horrific for the planet.
        X86BSD 9y ago
        Everyone can walk to anything they need. I've never been to a city in this country that didn't have a grocery store, a radio shack, or any store of items I might need. So again that's great you enjoy walking. I don't feel like walking 7 days to Colorado. I would rather drive the 8 hrs. Anything else I can walk/bike/or drive to get what I want near me.
mattnewton 9y ago
Sounds like an excellent place to retire to, but the job market is too far off for me to leave Silicon Valley. Plus, I've been really enjoying the weather, I've made peace with renting since I don't know where I will want to end up, and the $$ differential more than makes up for the lackluster public transportation. Other young technical people must be making similar calculations.
hunterjrj 9y ago
Forgive the sarcasm in my comment here, but... Have you been to Toronto or Vancouver lately? - Average detached home price in both markets is well above $1M CAD. - We have our share of homeless people (admittedly though, they are of the polite variety for the most part) - Public transport/traffic is a joke in Toronto. Absolutely laughable.
ryanobjc 9y ago
As a Canadian who lives in SF, your bullet points really need qualifiers. In general I find that Canadians over estimate the danger of living in the US. As for that other stuff, it really depends on where in Canada. Don't tell me that the public transit is great everywhere, because it isn't. Canada was built on cars. Some cities, like exactly only Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal have good public transit. Many do not. BTW the amount of homeless people sleeping on the streets in Toronto was a little surprising to me. Vancouver has the same real estate market as SF. Good luck buying a $1.1m on a $105k senior Dev salary. As for health insurance, the system works if you have a good job with good benefits.
- okatsu 9y ago
  "As for health insurance, the system works if you have a good job with good benefits." That's kind of an important "if", though. My mother had a menial job when she was diagnosed with lung cancer and I wouldn't have been able to cover her with my health insurance. She unfortunately passed away but at least the attempted treatments didn't cost us anything. What do you do if you lose your job and suddenly fall severely ill? Return to Canada?
  - ryanobjc 9y ago
    I do expect California to keep the ACA reforms regardless what happens federally. I don't expect California to regress, and I expect health care in this great state to improve over time. So, it seems like a non problem for now. Besides, the real issue in the US wasn't becoming sick, but becoming chronically ill. That was the big problem with no escape, but ACA has helped reduce that problem.
aaron_m04 9y ago
> not seeing crazy / homeless people in the streets When I first visited Vancouver in 2014, there was some woman hitting herself and crying on the bus, and I saw plenty of homeless people.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
mikestew 9y ago
- raise your family in a safe environment That would be a refreshing change from the crime-ridden dystopia of Redmond, WA. /s - not seeing crazy / homeless people in the streets - being able to buy a house Let me guess, you live in eastern Canada and have never travelled to Vancouver. Look, you don't get to cherry-pick one small area of the U. S., an area that pretty much all agree has it's own unique problems, and then compare to all of Canada. Canada has its problems, too, as I point out above. In fact, were one to compare the Bay Area with Vancouver, I'm taking the Bay Area. Better pay, cheaper housing, and no more or less observed homeless than Vancouver. "Yeah, but what about $RANDOM_MANITOBA_TOWN?" Yeah, and what about Indianapolis, IN? At least in Indianapolis, if I lose my job I can go find one tomorrow at another insurance company. It won't be glamorous, but it'll pay the mortgage. Outside of Vancouver or the Toronto area, what am I going to do if I lose my job in Kelowna? Canada is a lovely country, and I have made a concerted effort to take the steps to immigrate. But in the end, I'm still in the U. S. where I will probably remain. Canada can hand-wave all they want, as you have, but that doesn't fix the problem. Quality of life (which is arguable to begin with) takes a back seat when the mortgage needs to be paid.
- ryanobjc 9y ago
  A lot of rhetoric about moving to small towns and the like falls apart when you consider having to get a new job. The number of interesting software companies in Vancouver is tiny. Ok so why not Toronto then? Well my family is west-coast based, and frankly it's actually cheaper to visit them living in SF, and I get paid fairly here.

by Thaxll 9y ago

kojeovo 9y ago

- not seeing crazy / homeless people in the streets I live and work downtown Toronto and see plenty of crazy and homeless people each day. Especially around my condo in one of the busiest areas in the city.

X86BSD 9y ago

You just described Kansas City, actually that fits a good chunk of the Midwest. I'll take my wide open space and rolling hills to the insane cost of a shoebox to live in, in California anyday.

pwthornton 9y ago
In most of the Midwest, where I am from, you'll have to be basically married to your car, rarely get to walk anywhere and the wide open spaces will be blotted by hideous strip malls and McMansion developments. It's appalling.
- JBReefer 9y ago
  Not the central parts of Kansas City, which is where I'm from. You can walk or bike everywhere in the urban rectangle from River Market to Waldo, and the bus is workable (but imperfect). It's also a short drive to 98% of where you'd want to go, and it's insanely cheap. I would move back immediately if my family wasn't here in NYC. People have really lost their minds since the election and I'm tired of only ever hearing about politics. I do agree that a lot of Midwestern suburbs are horribly depressing and conformist, but there's a lot more to the Midwest.
  - X86BSD 9y ago
    The new street car is awesome! especially for visitors. And it's free. It was well worth the money and they have plans to expand it to the northland as well. If we could get it to run from KCI to the plaza it would be a huge boon. Bike rentals are downtown although I have never used them provided by the city. I don't seem to have a problem with the burbs like some do. Maybe I am used to it. I like having wide open spaces. I don't like people piled up on top of me. And I like having a car. I can go anywhere. I can head to Branson for the weekend or Omaha. I can even skate out to Colorado if I wish. I'm not stuck taking the slow AF Amtrak or a bus (shiver), car = freedom.
    - pwthornton 9y ago
      Being able to walk/wheel chair places regardless of your income or station is freedom. If my car breaks down today, I'm not stranded where I live. I can walk to everything I need, including my job if I was really committed (but I'd rather take the train). There is no reason that American suburbs are so hostile to walkability. It's very bad for human health (lack of movement and all of the air pollution that cars cause). And of Course sprawling, car-dependent lifestyles are horrific for the planet.
      - X86BSD 9y ago
        Everyone can walk to anything they need. I've never been to a city in this country that didn't have a grocery store, a radio shack, or any store of items I might need. So again that's great you enjoy walking. I don't feel like walking 7 days to Colorado. I would rather drive the 8 hrs. Anything else I can walk/bike/or drive to get what I want near me.

mattnewton 9y ago

Sounds like an excellent place to retire to, but the job market is too far off for me to leave Silicon Valley. Plus, I've been really enjoying the weather, I've made peace with renting since I don't know where I will want to end up, and the $$ differential more than makes up for the lackluster public transportation. Other young technical people must be making similar calculations.

hunterjrj 9y ago

Forgive the sarcasm in my comment here, but... Have you been to Toronto or Vancouver lately? - Average detached home price in both markets is well above $1M CAD. - We have our share of homeless people (admittedly though, they are of the polite variety for the most part) - Public transport/traffic is a joke in Toronto. Absolutely laughable.

ryanobjc 9y ago

As a Canadian who lives in SF, your bullet points really need qualifiers. In general I find that Canadians over estimate the danger of living in the US. As for that other stuff, it really depends on where in Canada. Don't tell me that the public transit is great everywhere, because it isn't. Canada was built on cars. Some cities, like exactly only Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal have good public transit. Many do not. BTW the amount of homeless people sleeping on the streets in Toronto was a little surprising to me. Vancouver has the same real estate market as SF. Good luck buying a $1.1m on a $105k senior Dev salary. As for health insurance, the system works if you have a good job with good benefits.

okatsu 9y ago
"As for health insurance, the system works if you have a good job with good benefits." That's kind of an important "if", though. My mother had a menial job when she was diagnosed with lung cancer and I wouldn't have been able to cover her with my health insurance. She unfortunately passed away but at least the attempted treatments didn't cost us anything. What do you do if you lose your job and suddenly fall severely ill? Return to Canada?
- ryanobjc 9y ago
  I do expect California to keep the ACA reforms regardless what happens federally. I don't expect California to regress, and I expect health care in this great state to improve over time. So, it seems like a non problem for now. Besides, the real issue in the US wasn't becoming sick, but becoming chronically ill. That was the big problem with no escape, but ACA has helped reduce that problem.

aaron_m04 9y ago

> not seeing crazy / homeless people in the streets When I first visited Vancouver in 2014, there was some woman hitting herself and crying on the bus, and I saw plenty of homeless people.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

mikestew 9y ago

- raise your family in a safe environment That would be a refreshing change from the crime-ridden dystopia of Redmond, WA. /s - not seeing crazy / homeless people in the streets - being able to buy a house Let me guess, you live in eastern Canada and have never travelled to Vancouver. Look, you don't get to cherry-pick one small area of the U. S., an area that pretty much all agree has it's own unique problems, and then compare to all of Canada. Canada has its problems, too, as I point out above. In fact, were one to compare the Bay Area with Vancouver, I'm taking the Bay Area. Better pay, cheaper housing, and no more or less observed homeless than Vancouver. "Yeah, but what about $RANDOM_MANITOBA_TOWN?" Yeah, and what about Indianapolis, IN? At least in Indianapolis, if I lose my job I can go find one tomorrow at another insurance company. It won't be glamorous, but it'll pay the mortgage. Outside of Vancouver or the Toronto area, what am I going to do if I lose my job in Kelowna? Canada is a lovely country, and I have made a concerted effort to take the steps to immigrate. But in the end, I'm still in the U. S. where I will probably remain. Canada can hand-wave all they want, as you have, but that doesn't fix the problem. Quality of life (which is arguable to begin with) takes a back seat when the mortgage needs to be paid.

ryanobjc 9y ago
A lot of rhetoric about moving to small towns and the like falls apart when you consider having to get a new job. The number of interesting software companies in Vancouver is tiny. Ok so why not Toronto then? Well my family is west-coast based, and frankly it's actually cheaper to visit them living in SF, and I get paid fairly here.