4 ms·

Anecdotal evidence 2: I live in Canada and make US salary. It's amazing. Canada is a joke when it comes to software salaries. For the last 10 years, you'll get

by cheez 9y ago

Anecdotal evidence 2: I live in Canada and make US salary. It's amazing. Canada is a joke when it comes to software salaries. For the last 10 years, you'll get $110K tops as a senior dev. In 2009(?) I had an offer for $110K. Last year I had an offer for $100K. Haven't made a Canadian dollar since 2007, but figured I'd try. If anything, Canada should be an offshoring panacea. We are among the best educated, most creative, stable countries in the world and our developers are stupid enough to work for peanuts.

tamersalama 9y ago
Care to chat about your experience?
- kogepathic 9y ago
  Sure. Send me an email. Username @ gmail
kogepathic 9y ago
> The biggest challenge as a country is retaining and recruiting the best people to build industries in Canada and not lose them to other jurisdictions Yup. I moved to Europe directly after my undergrad and was offered the equivalent of 90k CAD for a junior position. And I was entitled to 20 days paid vacation per year, by law. Not Paid Time Off (PTO) like they have in Canada. Get sick? Go to the doctor and stay home. It's not vacation (since you're sick) so you keep your vacation days. I've heard if you get sick while on vacation you can reclaim the days, though that's never happened. I've thought about moving back occasionally. But if I took my current European contract to any Canadian employer I'd be laughed out of the interview. Besides, it's nice here. Nearly the whole continent is <3 hours away by plane, so there's always somewhere new and interesting to visit with your copious annual vacation ;-)
scorown 9y ago
What kind of development work do you do?
- kogepathic 9y ago
  Python software development for a German mittelstand.
  - didip 9y ago
    Higher education in Germany is still free? I had no idea
    - kogepathic 9y ago
      In some states. NRW this year just introduced tuition for foreign students. As far as I know, for all domestic students tuition is still free (unless it's a private university).
decasteve 9y ago
I'm in a similar situation now. I'm a Canadian who spent the better part of a decade outside of Canada. Had no intention of moving back, but eventually did for family reasons. I now work remotely, for foreign clients (mostly US-based). I eventually ended up in a small university town on the east coast. Great combination of low cost of living, walkability of the town, many cultural events, and other things that allow a small town to punch above its weight in terms of general activity and things to do. I'm generally surprised, looking at the cost of living in some Canadian cities, like Toronto and Vancouver, that more people don't seek out interesting towns with lower costs of living--especially for remote workers.
- cheez 9y ago
  Family is usually the reason.
91823915702 9y ago
My senior team members and peers earn in the range of $120k - $140k in Toronto. I earn quite a bit more, having management experience helps to break past those ranges. I hear Amazon Toronto is paying up to $160k for IC's.
- cheez 9y ago
  That's great. Someone I know makes more than twice that. https://imgur.com/mfOlO27 https://imgur.com/mfOlO27
- ryanobjc 9y ago
  The key part being "up to" and "senior team members" All the numbers you quoted are for mid tier in SF. Yes cost of living is higher here, but the salary taps out quite a bit lower. Three of my colleagues own houses in San Francisco. Multiple of others own homes in Oakland or San Mateo. None of us are very special people, in other words just normal ICs and people who work hard, but not endlessly. To work as a Senior Dev in Toronto means topping out at 160k. To work as a senior dev here in SF means starting at 210k and only going up from there. That's more than cost of living differences can cover.
TimPC 9y ago
I got a $160K base in Canada at a good opportunity and $140K base without too much effort. But I had a great pedigree, a ML + software background and my Resume had a 90+% follow-up rate. Admittedly this was Toronto which outside of Vancouver is unlike the rest of Toronto. You need to find the right opportunities though because a lot of organizations cap out at $110-$150K depending on who they are and what they value.

by cheez 9y ago

tamersalama 9y ago

Care to chat about your experience?

kogepathic 9y ago
Sure. Send me an email. Username @ gmail

kogepathic 9y ago

> The biggest challenge as a country is retaining and recruiting the best people to build industries in Canada and not lose them to other jurisdictions Yup. I moved to Europe directly after my undergrad and was offered the equivalent of 90k CAD for a junior position. And I was entitled to 20 days paid vacation per year, by law. Not Paid Time Off (PTO) like they have in Canada. Get sick? Go to the doctor and stay home. It's not vacation (since you're sick) so you keep your vacation days. I've heard if you get sick while on vacation you can reclaim the days, though that's never happened. I've thought about moving back occasionally. But if I took my current European contract to any Canadian employer I'd be laughed out of the interview. Besides, it's nice here. Nearly the whole continent is <3 hours away by plane, so there's always somewhere new and interesting to visit with your copious annual vacation ;-)

scorown 9y ago

What kind of development work do you do?

kogepathic 9y ago
Python software development for a German mittelstand.
- didip 9y ago
  Higher education in Germany is still free? I had no idea
  - kogepathic 9y ago
    In some states. NRW this year just introduced tuition for foreign students. As far as I know, for all domestic students tuition is still free (unless it's a private university).

decasteve 9y ago

I'm in a similar situation now. I'm a Canadian who spent the better part of a decade outside of Canada. Had no intention of moving back, but eventually did for family reasons. I now work remotely, for foreign clients (mostly US-based). I eventually ended up in a small university town on the east coast. Great combination of low cost of living, walkability of the town, many cultural events, and other things that allow a small town to punch above its weight in terms of general activity and things to do. I'm generally surprised, looking at the cost of living in some Canadian cities, like Toronto and Vancouver, that more people don't seek out interesting towns with lower costs of living--especially for remote workers.

cheez 9y ago
Family is usually the reason.

91823915702 9y ago

My senior team members and peers earn in the range of $120k - $140k in Toronto. I earn quite a bit more, having management experience helps to break past those ranges. I hear Amazon Toronto is paying up to $160k for IC's.

cheez 9y ago
That's great. Someone I know makes more than twice that. https://imgur.com/mfOlO27 https://imgur.com/mfOlO27
ryanobjc 9y ago
The key part being "up to" and "senior team members" All the numbers you quoted are for mid tier in SF. Yes cost of living is higher here, but the salary taps out quite a bit lower. Three of my colleagues own houses in San Francisco. Multiple of others own homes in Oakland or San Mateo. None of us are very special people, in other words just normal ICs and people who work hard, but not endlessly. To work as a Senior Dev in Toronto means topping out at 160k. To work as a senior dev here in SF means starting at 210k and only going up from there. That's more than cost of living differences can cover.

TimPC 9y ago

I got a $160K base in Canada at a good opportunity and $140K base without too much effort. But I had a great pedigree, a ML + software background and my Resume had a 90+% follow-up rate. Admittedly this was Toronto which outside of Vancouver is unlike the rest of Toronto. You need to find the right opportunities though because a lot of organizations cap out at $110-$150K depending on who they are and what they value.