7 ms·

In Amish Country, the Future Is Calling

62 points by linkmotif 9y ago

djchung23 9y ago
I have a lot of respect for the Amish, I think they are true hackers. It's pretty amazing the things they build with the resources they have. Of course I love technology, the internet, etc and couldn't imagine my life without all that, but yes I am addicted to my phone and being able to look up anything whenever I want. This is extremely powerful, but this quote gives me something to think about as I type this at my desk job: “If you can just look it up on the internet, you’re not thinking,” said Levi, another woodworker. “The more people rely on technology, the more we want to sit behind a desk. But you can’t build a house sitting behind a desk.”
- 1_2__4 9y ago
  It's hard to invest much interest in the opinion of someone on a subject they've literally devoted their lives to knowing as little about as possible, to such a degree they live a life entirely isolated from it.
  - sliverstorm 9y ago
    And yet most people would consider monks fairly wise.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    It's not that they don't know about it, it's that they opt to selectively use it. The largest reason to avoid tech is because it removes from family values that they hold dear. This is why, when they go home, they probably don't bring their cell phone into the house. Err... Many of them have a phone house, though some use a privy. They leave their phone in there, be it landline or mobile. In fact, one of my most bizarre experiences was spending a year or two regularly conversing with a couple of Amish people. Why was that strange? It was on IRC. They were both away at college and, during that time, made free use of certain tech, because it didn't diminish their concept of family.
  - linkmotif 9y ago
    I think there's something incredibly valuable to that perspective.
  - musage 9y ago
    Unbeknownst to you, this goes both ways.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  ingeniosity vs engineering
- soperj 9y ago
  >But you can’t build a house sitting behind a desk Not yet, but we're pretty close with 3d printing.
  - sogen 9y ago
    Great idea for an ICO!
- throwawaydjdkso 9y ago
  Do they use this reasoning to justify all of the recessive diseases they pass on from inbreeding? Is that hacking too, you stupid fucking idiot?
- spodek 9y ago
  > * I have a lot of respect for the Amish, I think they are true hackers. It's pretty amazing the things they build with the resources they have.* You'll love Low Tech magazine then: http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/ http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/
- felipemnoa 9y ago
  >>“If you can just look it up on the internet, you’re not thinking,” I really do not see how having instant access to information precludes you from thinking. Au contraire, it probably gives us more time to think and it allows our minds to branch out into much more interesting places. I think it's fine that we can just look things up. Even Albert Einstein seemed to think so: “Never memorize what you can look up in books” p.s. For the picky the real quote is: “[I do not] carry such information in my mind since it is readily available in books. He also said, “…The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think.”
  - jcranmer 9y ago
    > I really do not see how having instant access to information precludes you from thinking. Au contraire, it probably gives us more time to think and it allows our minds to branch out into much more interesting places. There are two ways in which writing dulls the critical faculties rather than enhances them: First, writing is necessarily a one-way monologue, not a dialogue. The reader, the consumer of information is unable to probe the author to assess credibility and veracity of information. You also have no way to assess if you have correctly learned the information. As a result, it is all too easy to see misinformation, not information, get spread. This is not an idle concern--an awful lot of history turns out to be very old lies that have been retold so often in this manner that they have come to be treated as truth. A second issue that readily arises is that, when information is readily available at your fingertips, you're less likely to recall the information to find relevant comparisons. A lot of productivity in science or the humanities is in being able to draw parallels and synthesize similarities between rather disparate-seeming topics.
  - officialjunk 9y ago
    research is pointing towards this being this case though: https://news.utexas.edu/2017/06/26/the-mere-presence-of-your-smartphone-reduces-brain-power https://news.utexas.edu/2017/06/26/the-mere-presence-of-your...
leggomylibro 9y ago
I kind of wonder why there aren't neo-luddite communities literally re-inventing the wheel, these days. The Amish seem to pride themselves on their ascetic use of technology - it sounds like they believe in the discipline, patience, and lack of distractions that come with a disdain for tools which have not yet been refined by a long history of use. Why does nobody take that attitude with the production of say, bipolar transistors instead of wood stoves? Why don't we have any community-run film deposition machines? Throw together a cruelty-free hand-milled pressure chamber, a bespoke hand-wound HV transformer, an artisanal gluten-free vacuum pump, and you've got yourself a stew! I don't think Jeri Ellsworth counts as a prophet quite yet, but I might read that sort of holy book. The article mentions the Amish's occasional use of personal solar cells and batteries for household electricity despite a prohibition of connecting public utilities to a house; wouldn't it be more kosher to make the solar panels and batteries yourselves? We ARE getting to the point where 'electricity' is a tried-and-true, fundamental human tool. Why is say, a metal-air battery particularly different from a saw or a hammer or a match?
- GregBuchholz 9y ago
  What is so special about transistors? There are many non-linear active devices that are relatively unexplored due to the local maximum of transistors. How about homemade flame triodes or magnetic amplifiers or memristor.. I think you are going to love these guys: http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/ http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/ http://ludens.cl/Electron/Electron.html http://ludens.cl/Electron/Electron.html
  - leggomylibro 9y ago
    Just an example; film deposition is useful for all kinds of things, including producing solar cells, but a single BJT or FET seemed like a fairly simple starting point. Thanks for the links!
- vvanders 9y ago
  You've just described a large subset of the HAM community ;).
- 9y ago
dogruck 9y ago
Summary: Amish people are regular folk like everyone else. In my experience, outsiders get too hung up on perceived conflicts with the Amish community.
- OneTimePaddy 9y ago
  People want to convince themselves that there life choices are the only valid choices and realistic options. So if some other group lives a kind of idylic life- a search for the dark, evil spots of that lifestyle begins, to restore the damaged worldview.
mixmastamyk 9y ago
When I was a teenager, I thought folks like the Amish were "crazy." After growing up in the modern world under constant surveillance, housing prices out of reach, taxes for wars abroad I don't want, and "Equihacks" I find myself yearning for the days of old. (Would keep the antibiotics of course.)
- sogen 9y ago
  And the MacBook :)
- brianwawok 9y ago
  > I find myself yearning for the days of old. How far back? 50% of your children dying before 4 back? No antibiotics back? No dentists all teeth gone by 35 back? Slavery is legal back? We as humans have a very good skill at seeing the good things about past times and glossing over the not so good parts.
  - mixmastamyk 9y ago
    Thought it was somewhat clear, Amish plus antibiotics.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    Yet as all this tech and progress marches on at an incredible pace as things get better and better, the results are we've just hit a 30-year high in suicide rates in the US.
    - brianwawok 9y ago
      Have you seen a chart of life expectancy over the last 1000 years?
      - wallace_f 9y ago
        I don't think quality of life and life expectancy are the same thing, or even correlated.
jackcosgrove 9y ago
I keep hearing about this version of the singularity future where people lead intentional lives and eschew technology to produce handmade goods, as a way to find meaning in a world in which everything is automated. It seems the Amish are already there.
- Pulcinella 9y ago
  I'm not sure good it is to fine meaning in physical objects, no matter how artisanal or handcrafted they are, personally.
  - meric 9y ago
    Sometimes I look at the objects my father bought for me before he died - a toy train, a film camera - stuff I can get for $10 at a store, but they mean a lot more to me than that.
Chiba-City 9y ago
I roughly frame mobile PC's as libraries, letter carriers and proof assistants saving trees in books and car hours. I live in DC near the National Cathedral, don't drive and cook my food at home from scratch. These guys are smart. I admire the Anabaptist "Punk" DIY ethic. The music Punks were too loud. Live music is not Lo-Fi.

62 points by linkmotif 9y ago

I have a lot of respect for the Amish, I think they are true hackers. It's pretty amazing the things they build with the resources they have. Of course I love technology, the internet, etc and couldn't imagine my life without all that, but yes I am addicted to my phone and being able to look up anything whenever I want. This is extremely powerful, but this quote gives me something to think about as I type this at my desk job: “If you can just look it up on the internet, you’re not thinking,” said Levi, another woodworker. “The more people rely on technology, the more we want to sit behind a desk. But you can’t build a house sitting behind a desk.”

1_2__4 9y ago
It's hard to invest much interest in the opinion of someone on a subject they've literally devoted their lives to knowing as little about as possible, to such a degree they live a life entirely isolated from it.
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  And yet most people would consider monks fairly wise.
- KGIII 9y ago
  It's not that they don't know about it, it's that they opt to selectively use it. The largest reason to avoid tech is because it removes from family values that they hold dear. This is why, when they go home, they probably don't bring their cell phone into the house. Err... Many of them have a phone house, though some use a privy. They leave their phone in there, be it landline or mobile. In fact, one of my most bizarre experiences was spending a year or two regularly conversing with a couple of Amish people. Why was that strange? It was on IRC. They were both away at college and, during that time, made free use of certain tech, because it didn't diminish their concept of family.
- linkmotif 9y ago
  I think there's something incredibly valuable to that perspective.
- musage 9y ago
  Unbeknownst to you, this goes both ways.
agumonkey 9y ago
ingeniosity vs engineering
soperj 9y ago
>But you can’t build a house sitting behind a desk Not yet, but we're pretty close with 3d printing.
- sogen 9y ago
  Great idea for an ICO!
throwawaydjdkso 9y ago
Do they use this reasoning to justify all of the recessive diseases they pass on from inbreeding? Is that hacking too, you stupid fucking idiot?
spodek 9y ago
> * I have a lot of respect for the Amish, I think they are true hackers. It's pretty amazing the things they build with the resources they have.* You'll love Low Tech magazine then: http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/ http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/
felipemnoa 9y ago
>>“If you can just look it up on the internet, you’re not thinking,” I really do not see how having instant access to information precludes you from thinking. Au contraire, it probably gives us more time to think and it allows our minds to branch out into much more interesting places. I think it's fine that we can just look things up. Even Albert Einstein seemed to think so: “Never memorize what you can look up in books” p.s. For the picky the real quote is: “[I do not] carry such information in my mind since it is readily available in books. He also said, “…The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think.”
- jcranmer 9y ago
  > I really do not see how having instant access to information precludes you from thinking. Au contraire, it probably gives us more time to think and it allows our minds to branch out into much more interesting places. There are two ways in which writing dulls the critical faculties rather than enhances them: First, writing is necessarily a one-way monologue, not a dialogue. The reader, the consumer of information is unable to probe the author to assess credibility and veracity of information. You also have no way to assess if you have correctly learned the information. As a result, it is all too easy to see misinformation, not information, get spread. This is not an idle concern--an awful lot of history turns out to be very old lies that have been retold so often in this manner that they have come to be treated as truth. A second issue that readily arises is that, when information is readily available at your fingertips, you're less likely to recall the information to find relevant comparisons. A lot of productivity in science or the humanities is in being able to draw parallels and synthesize similarities between rather disparate-seeming topics.
- officialjunk 9y ago
  research is pointing towards this being this case though: https://news.utexas.edu/2017/06/26/the-mere-presence-of-your-smartphone-reduces-brain-power https://news.utexas.edu/2017/06/26/the-mere-presence-of-your...

leggomylibro 9y ago

I kind of wonder why there aren't neo-luddite communities literally re-inventing the wheel, these days. The Amish seem to pride themselves on their ascetic use of technology - it sounds like they believe in the discipline, patience, and lack of distractions that come with a disdain for tools which have not yet been refined by a long history of use. Why does nobody take that attitude with the production of say, bipolar transistors instead of wood stoves? Why don't we have any community-run film deposition machines? Throw together a cruelty-free hand-milled pressure chamber, a bespoke hand-wound HV transformer, an artisanal gluten-free vacuum pump, and you've got yourself a stew! I don't think Jeri Ellsworth counts as a prophet quite yet, but I might read that sort of holy book. The article mentions the Amish's occasional use of personal solar cells and batteries for household electricity despite a prohibition of connecting public utilities to a house; wouldn't it be more kosher to make the solar panels and batteries yourselves? We ARE getting to the point where 'electricity' is a tried-and-true, fundamental human tool. Why is say, a metal-air battery particularly different from a saw or a hammer or a match?

GregBuchholz 9y ago
What is so special about transistors? There are many non-linear active devices that are relatively unexplored due to the local maximum of transistors. How about homemade flame triodes or magnetic amplifiers or memristor.. I think you are going to love these guys: http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/ http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/ http://ludens.cl/Electron/Electron.html http://ludens.cl/Electron/Electron.html
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  Just an example; film deposition is useful for all kinds of things, including producing solar cells, but a single BJT or FET seemed like a fairly simple starting point. Thanks for the links!
vvanders 9y ago
You've just described a large subset of the HAM community ;).
9y ago

dogruck 9y ago

Summary: Amish people are regular folk like everyone else. In my experience, outsiders get too hung up on perceived conflicts with the Amish community.

OneTimePaddy 9y ago
People want to convince themselves that there life choices are the only valid choices and realistic options. So if some other group lives a kind of idylic life- a search for the dark, evil spots of that lifestyle begins, to restore the damaged worldview.

mixmastamyk 9y ago

When I was a teenager, I thought folks like the Amish were "crazy." After growing up in the modern world under constant surveillance, housing prices out of reach, taxes for wars abroad I don't want, and "Equihacks" I find myself yearning for the days of old. (Would keep the antibiotics of course.)

sogen 9y ago
And the MacBook :)
brianwawok 9y ago
> I find myself yearning for the days of old. How far back? 50% of your children dying before 4 back? No antibiotics back? No dentists all teeth gone by 35 back? Slavery is legal back? We as humans have a very good skill at seeing the good things about past times and glossing over the not so good parts.
- mixmastamyk 9y ago
  Thought it was somewhat clear, Amish plus antibiotics.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  Yet as all this tech and progress marches on at an incredible pace as things get better and better, the results are we've just hit a 30-year high in suicide rates in the US.
  - brianwawok 9y ago
    Have you seen a chart of life expectancy over the last 1000 years?
    - wallace_f 9y ago
      I don't think quality of life and life expectancy are the same thing, or even correlated.

jackcosgrove 9y ago

I keep hearing about this version of the singularity future where people lead intentional lives and eschew technology to produce handmade goods, as a way to find meaning in a world in which everything is automated. It seems the Amish are already there.

Pulcinella 9y ago
I'm not sure good it is to fine meaning in physical objects, no matter how artisanal or handcrafted they are, personally.
- meric 9y ago
  Sometimes I look at the objects my father bought for me before he died - a toy train, a film camera - stuff I can get for $10 at a store, but they mean a lot more to me than that.

Chiba-City 9y ago

I roughly frame mobile PC's as libraries, letter carriers and proof assistants saving trees in books and car hours. I live in DC near the National Cathedral, don't drive and cook my food at home from scratch. These guys are smart. I admire the Anabaptist "Punk" DIY ethic. The music Punks were too loud. Live music is not Lo-Fi.