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I don't understand why the author is so surprised about the reaction of her audience, who would not hire someone who just does HTML + CSS. In particular, I tota

I don't understand why the author is so surprised about the reaction of her audience, who would not hire someone who just does HTML + CSS. In particular, I totally disagree with this paragraph: > I understand the desire to have people who can do a lot of things. What I don’t understand is why it’s okay if you can “just write JS”, but somehow you’re not good enough if you “just write HTML and CSS”. _Writing_ JavaScript is programming. Writing HTML and CSS is not. Programming is several orders of magnitude harder than writing markup languages. Most of the time HTML and CSS are just tools to show the results of something else, they're auxiliary technologies, just like XML. You wouldn't hire a _XML & DTD writer_, you expect a programmer to know (or have heard of) XML. Anyone who blindly and directly compares "Just writing JS" with "just writing HTML and CSS" is short-sighted.

Kinnard 9y ago
Actually, I'd trade any day wrestling with HTML + CSS for a day writing javascript. HTML + CSS are both less powerful and significantly more difficult to produce good results in than any programming language I've worked in. It's bad + worse.
Blackthorn 9y ago
> _Writing_ JavaScript is programming. Writing HTML and CSS is not. Programming is several orders of magnitude harder than writing markup languages. Hey, let's be fair here. I'm a great programmer, but I can't design worth beans. They're totally different skills.
- LoSboccacc 9y ago
  But I bet you can render data out using html snd given a design you can get that html reasonably close with just some sweat and little stackoverflow trips.
  - Blackthorn 9y ago
    I'm not a code monkey, and neither is a designer. "Given a design" is the begging the question part. Who's design? Probably someone who only knows HTML and CSS.
    - AstralStorm 9y ago
      Or probably Adobe or Corel suites (or open source equivalents) and the limitations of website design. Not even the languages themselves. You still need someone to translate it into a website. Whether they can handle JS is secondary.
  - rorykoehler 9y ago
    What a colossal waste of time and money. Programmers are expensive and shouldn't waste their time pushing pixels when someone half the price can do it in half the time.
- omegote 9y ago
  What does designing have to do with writing HTML and CSS? I know a lot of guys who know HTML and CSS from head to toe yet they couldn't find for the life of them two matching colors to build a design.
watwut 9y ago
I know multiple css-only guys, employed and valued. None of them can do more then minimal js. They all have tons of work and we lobby employer for more of them. It seems to be harder to find someone good in css and able to style things well and able to communicate with customers then someone able to write js. Making UI look good is not auxialliry. It is something developers tend to sux at and it is quite core to the success. And also, css is not easy. It is hard to learn, especially to programmers who like things systemic and predictable.
- omegote 9y ago
  Of course "Making UI look good is not auxiliary", I agree with that, but you're talking about design, and the article is talking about people who _just code_ HTML & CSS. Those are two totally different things.
throwaway2016a 9y ago
Just about half our marketing team knows how to write HTML and CSS. They learned it because they found out the developers who too backed up to get their landing pages and such done on the schedule they needed. But those people also know marketing... I can't imagine finding enough work for someone with just HTML and CSS to fill a 40 hour week. Especially since most content these days is generated by CMS systems and WYSIWYG editors. And there is only so much work in boilerplate. So to me the problem is not that they are not valuable skills but that they make up such a small portion of what needs to be done. Although I'm sure at some other companies this is not true.

Kinnard 9y ago

Actually, I'd trade any day wrestling with HTML + CSS for a day writing javascript. HTML + CSS are both less powerful and significantly more difficult to produce good results in than any programming language I've worked in. It's bad + worse.

Blackthorn 9y ago

> _Writing_ JavaScript is programming. Writing HTML and CSS is not. Programming is several orders of magnitude harder than writing markup languages. Hey, let's be fair here. I'm a great programmer, but I can't design worth beans. They're totally different skills.

LoSboccacc 9y ago
But I bet you can render data out using html snd given a design you can get that html reasonably close with just some sweat and little stackoverflow trips.
- Blackthorn 9y ago
  I'm not a code monkey, and neither is a designer. "Given a design" is the begging the question part. Who's design? Probably someone who only knows HTML and CSS.
  - AstralStorm 9y ago
    Or probably Adobe or Corel suites (or open source equivalents) and the limitations of website design. Not even the languages themselves. You still need someone to translate it into a website. Whether they can handle JS is secondary.
- rorykoehler 9y ago
  What a colossal waste of time and money. Programmers are expensive and shouldn't waste their time pushing pixels when someone half the price can do it in half the time.
omegote 9y ago
What does designing have to do with writing HTML and CSS? I know a lot of guys who know HTML and CSS from head to toe yet they couldn't find for the life of them two matching colors to build a design.

watwut 9y ago

I know multiple css-only guys, employed and valued. None of them can do more then minimal js. They all have tons of work and we lobby employer for more of them. It seems to be harder to find someone good in css and able to style things well and able to communicate with customers then someone able to write js. Making UI look good is not auxialliry. It is something developers tend to sux at and it is quite core to the success. And also, css is not easy. It is hard to learn, especially to programmers who like things systemic and predictable.

omegote 9y ago
Of course "Making UI look good is not auxiliary", I agree with that, but you're talking about design, and the article is talking about people who _just code_ HTML & CSS. Those are two totally different things.

throwaway2016a 9y ago

Just about half our marketing team knows how to write HTML and CSS. They learned it because they found out the developers who too backed up to get their landing pages and such done on the schedule they needed. But those people also know marketing... I can't imagine finding enough work for someone with just HTML and CSS to fill a 40 hour week. Especially since most content these days is generated by CMS systems and WYSIWYG editors. And there is only so much work in boilerplate. So to me the problem is not that they are not valuable skills but that they make up such a small portion of what needs to be done. Although I'm sure at some other companies this is not true.