5 ms·

> And no, "choose another provider" is not a valid option, as there is no alternative because no service allows me to transfer my identity (e.g. email address)

> And no, "choose another provider" is not a valid option, as there is no alternative because no service allows me to transfer my identity (e.g. email address) so old contacts can reach me, unlike with phone numbers. With a bit of foresight there certainly is, your own domain pointing at gmail? gmail removes your account, your email still works you just have to point it at a different backend. But therein lies the rub right? It costs money and people won't pay it, they'll take the free option every time. Personally I find it hard to see how these companies can be regulated in the way that you want for services that they give away for free.

mschuster91 9y ago
> With a bit of foresight there certainly is, your own domain pointing at gmail? That costs money for the Google Apps Enterprise suite, and you're still dealing with a company that isn't known for customer service - you may point your MX records somewhere else but still can't access old emails when they terminate you for whatever stupid reason. (Yes, backups are a solution but many people blindly trust the cloud)
- dageshi 9y ago
  Fundamentally companies are not obligated to give you their services for free, which seems to be what you're demanding? Now if you were to argue that companies must give you the opportunity to download your data before they close your account, that I would agree with. I'd even say a grace period of a few days so you can practically change your email might be worth considering, but I don't see how you can possibly argue that companies must give their services away for free just because they're good at what they do.
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    > Fundamentally companies are not obligated to give you their services for free, which seems to be what you're demanding? No, what I demand is that there must be a right to due process in an independent court of law for services deemed essential for modern social life. Right now, an underpaid person, who does nothing but watch the most vile content imaginable, can close my account because he has no time to properly assess art, political commentary or historically significant imagery (Napalm Girl), and I have no way at all to actually talk to a human to appeal - even if I'm a real customer who has paid for both Twitter and FB ads. All I have (at least for FB) is a "reply" box but no matter what you type in there you get canned responses back but definitely no human.
    - dageshi 9y ago
      Then have government provide an "official" email/youtube platform or hell roll your own, which with email at least is perfectly possible. Using these services is literally a choice, it is in many ways the best choice, but it's not the only choice available.
      - mschuster91 9y ago
        > Then have government provide an "official" email/youtube platform Lol I won't ever hand that level of personal data to a government institution. Having a private company as a custodian of the data at least protects me/my data from government snooping (okay, does not apply to the US with their NSLs). > or hell roll your own, which with email at least is perfectly possible. No it's not, good luck setting up your own mail server - even with DKIM, SPF and whatnot configured the major mail providers will classify you as potential spammer. Thanks to greedy Viagra sellers and casinos, email is all but ruined for small-ish or even single-person operations.
        ue_ 9y ago
        >Lol I won't ever hand that level of personal data to a government institution. But you would to a private one? Why?
dredmorbius 9y ago
That only redirects the problem to a different level: you've got to rely on a domain registrar, a business ... similarly not recognised for its attentiveness to small-player customer service. And for which loss of control poses a whole higher level of problems.
- dageshi 9y ago
  There are legal processes laid down for losing a domain, arbitration e.t.c., (for US domains that is, non US domains couldn't be regulated anyway). So unless you miss your payment then I don't see how at the domain level it's much different to your phone service?
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    I can't possibly conceive of any circumstance in which the typical American might possibly miss a payment. Or find themselves unable to launch a legal challenge. Your phone number is unlikely to be distributed to another person immediately on expiry, or before expiring. Not so Internet domains. https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/05/guess-how-many-americans-struggle-to-come-up-with.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/05/guess-how-many-ame... https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-i-be-fired-from-work-due-to-a-court-date--my-s-606383.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-i-be-fired-from-work-... 40 million results for a Google search on lost Internet domains: https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=lost%20domain%20(expired%7Ctransferred%7Clapsed) https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=lost%20domain%20...
    - dageshi 9y ago
      The rules are very clear and very simple, you pay for the domain it's yours unless there is some form of trademark dispute. You can pay in advance, you can pay 10 years in advance, you'll receive numerous reminders that your domain is going to expire. At a certain point there is an element of personal responsibility involved, if you can't manage to pay $10 for a domain every year or so then that's kinda on you.

mschuster91 9y ago

> With a bit of foresight there certainly is, your own domain pointing at gmail? That costs money for the Google Apps Enterprise suite, and you're still dealing with a company that isn't known for customer service - you may point your MX records somewhere else but still can't access old emails when they terminate you for whatever stupid reason. (Yes, backups are a solution but many people blindly trust the cloud)

dageshi 9y ago
Fundamentally companies are not obligated to give you their services for free, which seems to be what you're demanding? Now if you were to argue that companies must give you the opportunity to download your data before they close your account, that I would agree with. I'd even say a grace period of a few days so you can practically change your email might be worth considering, but I don't see how you can possibly argue that companies must give their services away for free just because they're good at what they do.
- mschuster91 9y ago
  > Fundamentally companies are not obligated to give you their services for free, which seems to be what you're demanding? No, what I demand is that there must be a right to due process in an independent court of law for services deemed essential for modern social life. Right now, an underpaid person, who does nothing but watch the most vile content imaginable, can close my account because he has no time to properly assess art, political commentary or historically significant imagery (Napalm Girl), and I have no way at all to actually talk to a human to appeal - even if I'm a real customer who has paid for both Twitter and FB ads. All I have (at least for FB) is a "reply" box but no matter what you type in there you get canned responses back but definitely no human.
  - dageshi 9y ago
    Then have government provide an "official" email/youtube platform or hell roll your own, which with email at least is perfectly possible. Using these services is literally a choice, it is in many ways the best choice, but it's not the only choice available.
    - mschuster91 9y ago
      > Then have government provide an "official" email/youtube platform Lol I won't ever hand that level of personal data to a government institution. Having a private company as a custodian of the data at least protects me/my data from government snooping (okay, does not apply to the US with their NSLs). > or hell roll your own, which with email at least is perfectly possible. No it's not, good luck setting up your own mail server - even with DKIM, SPF and whatnot configured the major mail providers will classify you as potential spammer. Thanks to greedy Viagra sellers and casinos, email is all but ruined for small-ish or even single-person operations.
      - ue_ 9y ago
        >Lol I won't ever hand that level of personal data to a government institution. But you would to a private one? Why?

dredmorbius 9y ago

That only redirects the problem to a different level: you've got to rely on a domain registrar, a business ... similarly not recognised for its attentiveness to small-player customer service. And for which loss of control poses a whole higher level of problems.

dageshi 9y ago
There are legal processes laid down for losing a domain, arbitration e.t.c., (for US domains that is, non US domains couldn't be regulated anyway). So unless you miss your payment then I don't see how at the domain level it's much different to your phone service?
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  I can't possibly conceive of any circumstance in which the typical American might possibly miss a payment. Or find themselves unable to launch a legal challenge. Your phone number is unlikely to be distributed to another person immediately on expiry, or before expiring. Not so Internet domains. https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/05/guess-how-many-americans-struggle-to-come-up-with.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/05/guess-how-many-ame... https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-i-be-fired-from-work-due-to-a-court-date--my-s-606383.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-i-be-fired-from-work-... 40 million results for a Google search on lost Internet domains: https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=lost%20domain%20(expired%7Ctransferred%7Clapsed) https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=lost%20domain%20...
  - dageshi 9y ago
    The rules are very clear and very simple, you pay for the domain it's yours unless there is some form of trademark dispute. You can pay in advance, you can pay 10 years in advance, you'll receive numerous reminders that your domain is going to expire. At a certain point there is an element of personal responsibility involved, if you can't manage to pay $10 for a domain every year or so then that's kinda on you.