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What I would like to see is for them to ditch all the GNU/GPL stuff and go with BSD for userland. Shipping old stuff is unacceptable and it's not like we can't

What I would like to see is for them to ditch all the GNU/GPL stuff and go with BSD for userland. Shipping old stuff is unacceptable and it's not like we can't install it if we want it.

josteink 9y ago
> What I would like to see is for them to ditch all the GNU/GPL stuff and go with BSD for userland. That sounds like an odd thing to wish for in software where you are the user. That's asking for less freedom. So why would you do that? > Shipping old stuff is unacceptable and it's not like we can't install it if we want it. I can't see how 1. this is related and 2. how Apple would bother putting in the effort to replacing its full toolchain with completely different implementations when they can't even bother updating the one they already have. Basically... This is all on Apple's hand. But if you want a modern, updated toolset which you know will be kept up to date, I know there are lots of Linux distros out there which can deliver what Apple seemingly can not.
- Crontab 9y ago
  "That sounds like an odd thing to wish for in software where you are the user. That's asking for less freedom. So why would you do that?" First, the BSD license offers more total freedom than the GPL does. I say this despite liking both the FSF and the GPL. Second, I would rather have up to date version of good BSD software than an old versions of good GPL software.
  - josteink 9y ago
    > First, the BSD license offers more total freedom than the GPL does That's objectively false. GPL provides more end-user freedom. BSD provides more developer freedom. There's not a single license which objectively and universally offers more freedom. > I would rather have up to date version of good BSD software than an old versions of good GPL software. False dichtohomy. That's comparing rotten apples to ripe oranges. You either have to compare old GPL to old BSD or new GPL to new BSD. And as an end-user I would prefer both new and GPL.
    - Crontab 9y ago
      "That's objectively false. GPL provides more end-user freedom. BSD provides more developer freedom. There's not a single license which objectively and universally offers more freedom." I disagree. Forcing people to do things is not "more freedom", although the GPL's goals are laudable. "False dichtohomy. That's comparing rotten apples to ripe oranges. You either have to compare old GPL to old BSD or new GPL to new BSD. And as an end-user I would prefer both new and GPL." Unfortunately, new and GPL is not an option. But this result is what the FSF wanted when they created the GPL3.
      - josteink 9y ago
        > I disagree This debate has been had a million times. Every time reasonable people agree you have to choose one or the other. You can't have both. I see no reason to re-iterate that debate though. I'd just like to point out that your view is not the prevalent nor accepted one.

What I would like to see is for them to ditch all the GNU/GPL stuff and go with BSD for userland. Shipping old stuff is unacceptable and it's not like we can't install it if we want it.

josteink 9y ago

> What I would like to see is for them to ditch all the GNU/GPL stuff and go with BSD for userland. That sounds like an odd thing to wish for in software where you are the user. That's asking for less freedom. So why would you do that? > Shipping old stuff is unacceptable and it's not like we can't install it if we want it. I can't see how 1. this is related and 2. how Apple would bother putting in the effort to replacing its full toolchain with completely different implementations when they can't even bother updating the one they already have. Basically... This is all on Apple's hand. But if you want a modern, updated toolset which you know will be kept up to date, I know there are lots of Linux distros out there which can deliver what Apple seemingly can not.

Crontab 9y ago
"That sounds like an odd thing to wish for in software where you are the user. That's asking for less freedom. So why would you do that?" First, the BSD license offers more total freedom than the GPL does. I say this despite liking both the FSF and the GPL. Second, I would rather have up to date version of good BSD software than an old versions of good GPL software.
- josteink 9y ago
  > First, the BSD license offers more total freedom than the GPL does That's objectively false. GPL provides more end-user freedom. BSD provides more developer freedom. There's not a single license which objectively and universally offers more freedom. > I would rather have up to date version of good BSD software than an old versions of good GPL software. False dichtohomy. That's comparing rotten apples to ripe oranges. You either have to compare old GPL to old BSD or new GPL to new BSD. And as an end-user I would prefer both new and GPL.
  - Crontab 9y ago
    "That's objectively false. GPL provides more end-user freedom. BSD provides more developer freedom. There's not a single license which objectively and universally offers more freedom." I disagree. Forcing people to do things is not "more freedom", although the GPL's goals are laudable. "False dichtohomy. That's comparing rotten apples to ripe oranges. You either have to compare old GPL to old BSD or new GPL to new BSD. And as an end-user I would prefer both new and GPL." Unfortunately, new and GPL is not an option. But this result is what the FSF wanted when they created the GPL3.
    - josteink 9y ago
      > I disagree This debate has been had a million times. Every time reasonable people agree you have to choose one or the other. You can't have both. I see no reason to re-iterate that debate though. I'd just like to point out that your view is not the prevalent nor accepted one.