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Can you provide a link to these any of these utilities? Most are so focused on reliability they are quite resistant to pushing the limits. There must have been

Can you provide a link to these any of these utilities? Most are so focused on reliability they are quite resistant to pushing the limits. There must have been some cost savings such as avoiding building or upgrading a substation

ZeroGravitas 9y ago
Green Mountain Power https://www.tesla.com/blog/next-step-in-energy-storage-aggregation https://www.tesla.com/blog/next-step-in-energy-storage-aggre... and Pacific Gas & Electric http://www.solarcity.com/newsroom/press/solarcity-and-pge-collaborate-distributed-energy-resource-projects http://www.solarcity.com/newsroom/press/solarcity-and-pge-co...
- snowwindwaves 9y ago
  the PG&E project is a technology demonstration which is a nice first step green mountain power appears to be a retailer of electricity and not a distribution company; they don't own any power lines. The distribution co. will have to be on board to safely accept power flowing in the opposite direction (from the load), and for the most part they have no incentive for this so don't really care.
  - ZeroGravitas 9y ago
    Wikipedia says they own 21,000Km of power lines: Green Mountain Power (GMP), a subsidiary of Gaz Métro, is the largest electricity distributor in Vermont, serving over 70% of the market and more than 260,000 customers. GMP’s core business includes the distribution, transportation, generation, purchase and sale of electricity in Vermont and, to a lesser degree, electricity transportation in New Hampshire and electricity generation in the states of New York, Maine and Connecticut. The GMP network comprises over 1,500 km of overhead transmission lines, 18,000 km of overhead distribution lines and 1,600 km of underground distribution lines, located mainly in Vermont but also extending to New Hampshire and New York.[17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz_M%C3%A9tro#Vermont_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz_M%C3%A9tro#Vermont_operati... You may be confusing them with Green Mountain Energy, which got spun off and bought by someone else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Mountain_Energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Mountain_Energy
lutorm 9y ago
If US utilities were focused on reliability, they would have stopped putting power lines above ground a long time ago. The power grid in the US is way more unreliable than any other country I've experienced, and I can only think that it's because the utilities are so profit-focused that they put lowering infrastructure costs above losing a little revenue due to power outages here and there. After all, the real societal costs due to unreliable power are completely externalized onto their customers. The utilities are fine talking about reliability when it comes to newfangled competitors like solar, but that's mostly because they're a threat to their bottom line, not because they actually care about reliability.
- Caveman_Coder 9y ago
  > "...and I can only think that it's because the utilities are so profit-focused that they put lowering infrastructure costs above losing a little revenue due to power outages here and there." There is more that goes into transmission line engineering than cost. "Agility" is important, and it is a lot harder to tap underground transmission lines than overhead lines. Outages, while less likely for underground, are actually, on average, longer than overhead line outages.
- snowwindwaves 9y ago
  the cost for overhead distribution might be $10,000 per km whereas best case underground (easy digging) is $30,000-$40,000. whatever your connection fee on your monthly bill is (mine is $10 CAD), would you like it to be 4x higher?

ZeroGravitas 9y ago

Green Mountain Power https://www.tesla.com/blog/next-step-in-energy-storage-aggregation https://www.tesla.com/blog/next-step-in-energy-storage-aggre... and Pacific Gas & Electric http://www.solarcity.com/newsroom/press/solarcity-and-pge-collaborate-distributed-energy-resource-projects http://www.solarcity.com/newsroom/press/solarcity-and-pge-co...

snowwindwaves 9y ago
the PG&E project is a technology demonstration which is a nice first step green mountain power appears to be a retailer of electricity and not a distribution company; they don't own any power lines. The distribution co. will have to be on board to safely accept power flowing in the opposite direction (from the load), and for the most part they have no incentive for this so don't really care.
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  Wikipedia says they own 21,000Km of power lines: Green Mountain Power (GMP), a subsidiary of Gaz Métro, is the largest electricity distributor in Vermont, serving over 70% of the market and more than 260,000 customers. GMP’s core business includes the distribution, transportation, generation, purchase and sale of electricity in Vermont and, to a lesser degree, electricity transportation in New Hampshire and electricity generation in the states of New York, Maine and Connecticut. The GMP network comprises over 1,500 km of overhead transmission lines, 18,000 km of overhead distribution lines and 1,600 km of underground distribution lines, located mainly in Vermont but also extending to New Hampshire and New York.[17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz_M%C3%A9tro#Vermont_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz_M%C3%A9tro#Vermont_operati... You may be confusing them with Green Mountain Energy, which got spun off and bought by someone else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Mountain_Energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Mountain_Energy

lutorm 9y ago

If US utilities were focused on reliability, they would have stopped putting power lines above ground a long time ago. The power grid in the US is way more unreliable than any other country I've experienced, and I can only think that it's because the utilities are so profit-focused that they put lowering infrastructure costs above losing a little revenue due to power outages here and there. After all, the real societal costs due to unreliable power are completely externalized onto their customers. The utilities are fine talking about reliability when it comes to newfangled competitors like solar, but that's mostly because they're a threat to their bottom line, not because they actually care about reliability.

Caveman_Coder 9y ago
> "...and I can only think that it's because the utilities are so profit-focused that they put lowering infrastructure costs above losing a little revenue due to power outages here and there." There is more that goes into transmission line engineering than cost. "Agility" is important, and it is a lot harder to tap underground transmission lines than overhead lines. Outages, while less likely for underground, are actually, on average, longer than overhead line outages.
snowwindwaves 9y ago
the cost for overhead distribution might be $10,000 per km whereas best case underground (easy digging) is $30,000-$40,000. whatever your connection fee on your monthly bill is (mine is $10 CAD), would you like it to be 4x higher?