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Sure, boards which look after professional certifications do have more power, especially in jurisdictions that give those certifications legal power. But those

by gok 9y ago

Sure, boards which look after professional certifications do have more power, especially in jurisdictions that give those certifications legal power. But those boards still don’t typically negotiate wages or organize strikes.

tptacek 9y ago
What's your point? The NLRA protects your right to organize over anything, not just wages. I agree completely that industry-wide wage controls are a bad idea.
_jal 9y ago
Right, they manage wages with entry limits and what amount to extended hazing rituals. And the power offered by controlling entry shifts negotiating tactics - strikes would rarely have a point. (Although doctors have gone on strike[1] in the US, it is just rare.) They are still labor unions with government-recognized powers, and they carefully look after their members' interests. [1] Stricken, struck, striked?
- ericd 9y ago
  Those of us with more anti-authoritarian leanings don't relish the idea of having an organization with power over our entire profession... As an alternative, anyone can start a company that puts into practice some of the employee friendly ideas you have, and use that to compete for workers, and try to move the market towards that ideal. I did that, and I really enjoyed the experience. I think my co-workers did too.
  - _jal 9y ago
    Totally get that. I wasn't trying to make a normative argument here, just pointing out that the state Bar and the SEIU are in the same business. For the record, I do consider some of the externalities generated by the professional guilds to be among the worst negatives of unions. As far as where I'm coming from, I used to be more libertarian-ish. I guess I've come to a view that as population density and interconnectedness increases, maintaining societal stability requires ideologically impure and economically suboptimal compromises. Call it pragmatic socio-nihilism.
    - ericd 9y ago
      Heh fair, and I'm certainly not against the idea of government being necessary to coordinate in such large groups, I just don't envy doctors and lawyers for their professional organizations, and am a bit surprised that so many programmers seem to want more structure and intermediaries involved in their employment.

by gok 9y ago

tptacek 9y ago

What's your point? The NLRA protects your right to organize over anything, not just wages. I agree completely that industry-wide wage controls are a bad idea.

_jal 9y ago

Right, they manage wages with entry limits and what amount to extended hazing rituals. And the power offered by controlling entry shifts negotiating tactics - strikes would rarely have a point. (Although doctors have gone on strike[1] in the US, it is just rare.) They are still labor unions with government-recognized powers, and they carefully look after their members' interests. [1] Stricken, struck, striked?

ericd 9y ago
Those of us with more anti-authoritarian leanings don't relish the idea of having an organization with power over our entire profession... As an alternative, anyone can start a company that puts into practice some of the employee friendly ideas you have, and use that to compete for workers, and try to move the market towards that ideal. I did that, and I really enjoyed the experience. I think my co-workers did too.
- _jal 9y ago
  Totally get that. I wasn't trying to make a normative argument here, just pointing out that the state Bar and the SEIU are in the same business. For the record, I do consider some of the externalities generated by the professional guilds to be among the worst negatives of unions. As far as where I'm coming from, I used to be more libertarian-ish. I guess I've come to a view that as population density and interconnectedness increases, maintaining societal stability requires ideologically impure and economically suboptimal compromises. Call it pragmatic socio-nihilism.
  - ericd 9y ago
    Heh fair, and I'm certainly not against the idea of government being necessary to coordinate in such large groups, I just don't envy doctors and lawyers for their professional organizations, and am a bit surprised that so many programmers seem to want more structure and intermediaries involved in their employment.