4 ms·

> The incarceration is the punishment handed out by the state, the state being a proxy of 'society'. There is however no moral obligation for any citizen to tak

by sgift 9y ago

> The incarceration is the punishment handed out by the state, the state being a proxy of 'society'. There is however no moral obligation for any citizen to take over the stance of that 'abstract society' that a prisoner can be released for whatever reason. While true this is a reflection on society itself. Some people learn this the hard way, when they end on the wrong side of it and then ask "why do people not forgive?" > On a meta note, I would be a lot more sympathetic to many 'causes' if only they would choose less reprehensible poster children for their campaigns. > Campaigning on the basis of a child murderer who abused a 4 year old and let him starve to death not being admitted to a top university being 'unfair'? Yeah, good luck with that. You either stand for your principles in all circumstances or none. If they only count for 'easy' cases they are worthless anyway.

roel_v 9y ago
"You either stand for your principles in all circumstances or none. If they only count for 'easy' cases they are worthless anyway." So a third-striker convicted to 15 years in jail for stealing a loaf of bread is equally 'deserving' of help than a child murderer? Okay... Look I would agree if you would say 'we'll focus on a group and if there happen to be undeserving people in that group, we'll grudgingly accept that as 'collateral damage'' - but saying that there can be no advocacy until you can, up front, define exactly what you will stand for and what not, and if you miss an edge case you somehow have a moral obligation to take those 'under your wing' so to say, is just naively rigid absolutism.
- pc86 9y ago
  > naively rigid absolutism 90% of anything approaching a political discussion on HN.
- dwaltrip 9y ago
  > child murderer Is she a murderer, or someone who committed murder once over 20 years ago?
  - roel_v 9y ago
    A child murderer, obviously. Actions have consequences, some of them life long.
    - dwaltrip 9y ago
      To quote you, this sounds like "naively rigid absolutism".
pc86 9y ago
> You either stand for your principles in all circumstances or none. Your principles can simultaneously include "the prison system is badly broken and desperately in need to huge reforms" and "parents who brutally murder their children should never see another sunrise as a free person" without any cognitive dissonance.
- sgift 9y ago
  That they can - it's just a very different principle from the one which is about helping everyone after their prison time.

by sgift 9y ago

roel_v 9y ago

"You either stand for your principles in all circumstances or none. If they only count for 'easy' cases they are worthless anyway." So a third-striker convicted to 15 years in jail for stealing a loaf of bread is equally 'deserving' of help than a child murderer? Okay... Look I would agree if you would say 'we'll focus on a group and if there happen to be undeserving people in that group, we'll grudgingly accept that as 'collateral damage'' - but saying that there can be no advocacy until you can, up front, define exactly what you will stand for and what not, and if you miss an edge case you somehow have a moral obligation to take those 'under your wing' so to say, is just naively rigid absolutism.

pc86 9y ago
> naively rigid absolutism 90% of anything approaching a political discussion on HN.
dwaltrip 9y ago
> child murderer Is she a murderer, or someone who committed murder once over 20 years ago?
- roel_v 9y ago
  A child murderer, obviously. Actions have consequences, some of them life long.
  - dwaltrip 9y ago
    To quote you, this sounds like "naively rigid absolutism".

pc86 9y ago

> You either stand for your principles in all circumstances or none. Your principles can simultaneously include "the prison system is badly broken and desperately in need to huge reforms" and "parents who brutally murder their children should never see another sunrise as a free person" without any cognitive dissonance.

sgift 9y ago
That they can - it's just a very different principle from the one which is about helping everyone after their prison time.