10 ms·

Purism and KDE to Work Together on World's First Truly Free Smartphone

144 points by foob 9y ago

reificator 9y ago
Am I missing something? Why does FirefoxOS, for instance, not count as a "truly free smartphone"? Were there blob drivers or something? Or are we just forgetting them for the sake of the headline?
- jcelerier 9y ago
  > Were there blob drivers or something? yes
- throwaway2048 9y ago
  firefoxOS used the same braindamaged driver model as android, and a similar central store model.
iBelieve 9y ago
Does this mean they won't be using GNOME, or will this simply be another user interface option? The Purism fundraiser has mockups of a GNOME interface, and there was a recent [1] mailing list thread about starting a GNOME Mobile effort. I'm a GNOME user on my laptop, mainly because the design feels more polished than Plasma, so I would have liked to see a mobile initiative for GNOME. [1] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2017-September/msg00011.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2017-Sept...
- foob 9y ago
  It's my understanding that PureOS is currently Gnome based and that they're heavily leaning towards that remaining the default, but that they haven't made a final decision yet. It does sound like users will have the option to install either though.
  - zlatan_todoric 9y ago
    We certainly will invest heavily into one DE (upon successful campaign that decision will be made) but we will also work with all interested parties and devote some resources to get other up (it is the same in case someone is trying to bring up other OS or DE, we will try to help such effort as much as we can). The point is to give to community working Free phone and finally disrupt the status quo.
    - carussell 9y ago
      How about you give the community a working free phone by shipping a phone that runs vanilla AOSP and try evolving it into what you think you want it to be? At least that way, when Linux-desktop-on-the-phone proves itself (again) to be an even worse failure than Linux-on-the-desktop, the world will still be left with a free phone, instead of a free phone that strangled by its associated with a doomed software strategy.
      - zlatan_todoric 9y ago
        On the phone we plan to produce, you will be able to install Android as matter of fact - it is just that we will not do it by our default as we want a pure Linux stack that is going to roll in updates normally as desktop is and not being attached to older kernels and heavy forks of ecosystem. Even for scale of Google it is not feasible to do it that way so they are now doing their own research and development (Fuchsia OS or something like that).
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      It helped Nokia a lot to switch from Gtk to Qt.
- simion314 9y ago
  KDE has the advantage of using Qt, Qt has paid developers working on it and it is also optimized for mobile.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Well switching from Gtk to Qt has helped Nokia a lot on Maemo.
  - flukus 9y ago
    The switch killed them. Had it been an earlier or later decision the would likely be in a very different place but their indecision and delays around the direction of maemo (after they bought trolltech) cost them everything.
brunoqc 9y ago
Are Linux applications going to use a lot of battery? Do they have wakelocks or something similar?
- curt15 9y ago
  This. Shorter battery life than in Windows is a frequent complaint about Linux on laptops, and for handheld computers battery life really needs to be a top priority.
  - akerro 9y ago
    RedHat is working on it, you can signup to be a tester: https://hansdegoede.livejournal.com/18412.html https://hansdegoede.livejournal.com/18412.html
  - brunoqc 9y ago
    Better battery usage for laptops is always a goal but I was thinking more in the sense that mobile OS have patterns to reduce battery usage. Android Oreo is even moving away from wakelocks. I guess it's not good enough and Linux apps don't even use that.
- Elv13 9y ago
  (KDE dev here) It is still an issue, but it's getting better. As far as I am concerned, Ring-KDE (a phone and Skype alternative app) is still eating too much power. It is a work in progress and is already much better than it was a couple months ago. Some of the dependencies my app use are also power hungry. This needs to be fixed. However it's nothing that can't be fixed. Enough profiling and powertop work will get us there.
  - akerro 9y ago
    Ex-Tox developer here: >Ring-KDE (a phone and Skype alternative app) is still eating too much power. This will always be a nature of Ring and Tox because it uses DHT network to find peers and keep connections alive, this is CPU-hungry, therefore power consuming and it won't be accepted on mobile platforms. Also losing network connectivity for 3 seconds causes the client to reconnect to the network, find peers again, messages can be lost... Matrix is the way to go.
oldgun 9y ago
Really really love to see this going somewhere, but what advantage does PureOS have after UbuntuTouch, FirefoxOS, SailfishOS, TizenOS or even Windows Phone OS backed by a tech juggernaut failed to make an impact?
- 482794793792894 9y ago
  That it doesn't need to make an impact. It'll be a hobbyists' project like desktop Linux that people will continue to push forward for its own sake.
- bryanlarsen 9y ago
  PureOS probably doesn't have a business plan dependent on selling millions of smartphones.
- gue5t 9y ago
  Not one of those had free drivers on any consumer-available hardware, so you're limited to kernels compatible with your binary blobs, which then limits your userspace, which leaves you firmly stuck in the insecure, slowly bitrotting past. All of them except Tizen were using Android kernels and bionic libc, and Tizen is a fucking garbage fire (read some of their GPL dumps or try to navigate their bizarre code-dumps-in-branches repo structure sometime). Desktop Linux is a success (as in, a viable option for those who want to avoid the downsides of proprietary OSes); the only reason there isn't such a viable non-user-hostile OS option on phones is driver support, and this effort says they'll ensure free-software drivers. Plus, by avoiding the braindead "App Store" model, you instantly have access to a huge and growing base of software, all for free. Finding software for Android is a hellish experience marred by invasive ads, malware, loads upon loads of spam, crappy wrappers for actual free software, profit-grubbing clones on the app you actually wanted, etc. By removing the perverse incentive of "users = $$$" the user experience of finding software improves drastically. The GUI of most free software isn't well-suited to a phone, but I would far rather wait for UI revamps while using software that does everything I want, as opposed to having to just shrug and give up on finding a web browser with a web inspector--what I ended up doing under Android and iOS.
- Hjugo 9y ago
big_youth 9y ago
What is HN's opinion on Purism laptops? I'm looking for a new linux machine but I'm unfamiliar with Purism. Currently leaning toward a Lenovo X1 Carbon or 470s, possibly a system 76.
- zlatan_todoric 9y ago
  Purism CTO here. I will not comment other but I can say for ours - you get it preinstalled with coreboot (which will also get updates as it progresses), all works out of the box with Free software (we preinstall on it PureOS but you can install any distro out there). Touchpad was an issue in past but we changed now and have quite a good touchpad that just works. The case is anodized aluminum. All Purism Librems have hardware kill switches - which means you can disable physically mic/camera and wifi/bt. Backlit keyboard is now on all models if that is something you like. Also with every buy you support our ongoing development such as neutralizing entirely ME, reverse engineering missing bits, creating our own firmware, developing PureOS as well as having better and better product (also if suddenly there would be thousands and thousands of orders, it would put price down). P.S. because there is no Free software for Bluetooth (for WiFi/BT module) we have it disabled by default which means you would not be hit by latest Bluetooth exploit :D
fghtr 9y ago
Will it be more free than https://neo900.org https://neo900.org?
caffed 9y ago
As someone who tried to fund the Ubuntu Edge, I don't see this getting fully funded. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge#/ It probably wasn't 100% FOSS (blobs?, baseband?, ...), but that was a much more polished product soft+hardware, especially for touch based usage. That is not to say that I don't want it to get funded, rather the barriers to entry are high.
- Nelkins 9y ago
  On the other hand, Ubuntu Edge tried to raise $32 million. These folks are trying to raise $1.5 million. Seems like a much more reasonable goal.
  - mixedbit 9y ago
    Right, and they did raise 12 million.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    Reasonable in that it's easier to raise, but is it reasonable in that it's enough to do what they want to do?
- zlatan_todoric 9y ago
  To be honest, you can't say that was much more polished product soft+hardware as they never made one. On the other hand, if they could raise 12mil I don't see why wouldn't people back this to 1.5 and more. While it certainly will have its issues we certainly can produce such device and it is going to be alternative. There are a lot of failed FLOSS hardware tries but people should never give up hope and as said, we can produce this one for sure and by we I mean entire community - FLOSS people and devs, average Joe's, people who care about privacy, security and freedom of them, their families and friends and people who are simply fed up with iOS/Android state.
- akerro 9y ago
  I supported Omnia Turris project on indiegogo, their goal was 100k, they reached over 1.2M by the end. I think the open source (hardware + software) high end router is a bigger niche than opensource phone. Wish them best, this might be the FirefoxOS/UbuntuPhone we were waiting for! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/turris-omnia-hi-performance-open-source-router-security-network https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/turris-omnia-hi-performan...
Nelkins 9y ago
Librem 5 funding page, for those looking for it: https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
whalesalad 9y ago
Hate to be that guy but this is certainly going to be a flop.
- deltaprotocol 9y ago
  So you hate to be that guy but you still feel like coming here to state your absolutely empty point of view without even a hint of an argument? This isn't the place for hate speech or for pouring your negativism. This is a beautiful project by beautiful people dedicated to an open mobile solution which the world dramatically needs. Let's give them strength and share only our best constructive criticism.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - carussell 9y ago
    Constructive criticism is not the same thing as positivism—especially unconditional positivism. Withholding advice because it might sound negative is the opposite of constructive. Saying, "don't do that; you'll die!" is almost always constructive, for example. Imagine being told to bite your tongue and be supportive after your friend has announced their intent to run through traffic to get to the shop across the street.
    - prophesi 9y ago
      Nah, "don't do that; you'll die because you may get hit by traffic!" is constructive criticism. You have to give a reason for your positivity or negativity.
      - carussell 9y ago
        I don't think we're going to agree if you think that "don't do that; you'll die!" is unconstructive hate speech and better left unsaid.
        9y ago
bmn__ 9y ago
Any idea how to switch the mouse-centric desktop in KDE 5.36 to the mobile/touch variant? I want to experiment a bit. IIRC in an earlier version that was a simple matter of installing an additional package and switching a quite obvious setting in the control panel, but now I can't find it anymore…
- akerro 9y ago
  Plasma5 has a mobile variant that works on phones, I used it for a few days and it was quite alright for such young project. No crashes and not laggy at all, but it lacks applications that I use daily and games. https://plasma-mobile.org/ https://plasma-mobile.org/
  - bmn__ 9y ago
    Now that you reminded me of the name, I could search around. (Package names were plasma-mobile-* and plasma-active-*.) KDE/Plasma Active was packaged last in 2014 for major distros, but no release since then. The old packages are not installable any more. Feels quite dead from the end-user perspective. Version 6 is not packaged anywhere AFAICT.
chc4 9y ago
I want to love Plasma Mobile. But development on it has always looked extremely dead every time I've checked on it since it has came out, and there are next to no phones that it's been ported to. I've never even seen someone mention using it online, unlike Ubuntu Touch or FirefoxOS or Sailfish (when they were all alive). Honestly, it's felt like it's been thrown by the wayside ever since it came out, and that's not encouraging to the thought of running it on a phone that you'd use as a daily driver.
- zlatan_todoric 9y ago
  KDE community is awesome and all they needed to revive things around plasma mobile effort is to have dedicated device and with Librem5 they would get exactly that.
- emilsedgh 9y ago
  Ubuntu Touch was sponsored by Canonical and Firefox OS was backed by Mozilla. Plasma is truly a community effort. So of course you haven't heard about it much. I think at any given time there are only a handful of paid developers employed by a few small and big companies working on it. That means there's not much resources and almost no paid marketing. It's also not fashionable anymore. Ubuntu Touch and FirefoxOS and a bunch of other projects got cancelled because the parent companies didn't expect a proper ROI. Plasma Mobile has been going slow but steady. There's no company to pull off the resources. Also, the community if determined to provide a Free As In Freedom experience on desktop. Hopefully they can do it on phones as well. Their agenda is only software freedom and privacy. Disclaimer: Used to be a KDE contributor, in no way associated with Plasma Mobile.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    "Plasma Mobile has been going slow but steady. There's no company to pull off the resources." Then there's also no company to dedicate resources, and do the unfun work that still needs to get done. "Their agenda is only software freedom and privacy." I hate to say it, but I don't see the phrase "works well" and "stable" in there. Which, while fine for a desktop, is not fine for a phone.
  - 9y ago
mixedbit 9y ago
I think the initial goal of Purism should be to make a working device with WiFi and GSM drivers and a minimal software layer on top. Even a command line tools for things like making a call, or sending an SMS would be enough for the initial release. Let then a small group of enthusiastic early adopters experiment with different UIs on top. It is not possible for a small organization to release a product that will compete with iOS or Android from the start. I think Firefox OS and Ubuntu Phone could have failed because they had too ambitious initial goals and targeted too wide group with they early devices.
fabrice_d 9y ago
I applaud and support the HW side of this, this is absolutely needed and could be a game changer. Keep also in mind this is a v1. However I have reservations on the software choice. Mobile OSes live and die depending on the app ecosystem that is available. If you want lots of people to use your system, your need the popular apps to be on board. That will be hard with a KDE or Gnome based UI, and a second class citizen web support. The developer community has millions of iOS, Android and Web devs, but likely only thousands of Gnome/KDE ones. Getting top-notch PWA integration could ease that but that's unlikely to be a high priority. That being said, I feel they are happy with not being mainstream and that's fine too. Just different expectations.
- prophesi 9y ago
  Well, KDE uses QT, which has a good bit of support, and is developed by a paid team. Plasma Mobile's original goal was to support GTK/Sailfish/Android apps[0], so I have a little bit of hope. After being let down by so many privacy-oriented phones, I'm still doubtful but will back up this project. [0] https://www.pcworld.com/article/2953812/operating-systems/kde-unveils-plasma-mobile-a-free-and-open-linux-os-for-phones.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2953812/operating-systems/kd... under "An inclusive platform that supports many apps" section.
- zlatan_todoric 9y ago
  In first wave we plan to have couple of working apps such as dialer, mail, browser, audio/video player but gradually community will hop on and port/create apps for it. Sure, we start against millions of apps in other ecosystem but on average people don't use more than 20 apps often and I for one dislike that every website out there has created their own iOS/Android app when I can simply use one app for all them - browser. Also never underestimate the power of GNU/Linux community - it has by far most of hackers on it and it is doing their thing for decades already without slowing down at any single point. Also, we will try to help and support any community that will work on getting their OS/app on Librem 5. It would be phone produced by Purism and supported by us, but it would truly be one from people for people. :)
  - 9y ago
gsich 9y ago
Baseband too?
alasdair_ 9y ago
I paid for a Purism "Libre 13" laptop with a supposed shipping date that was roughly a month away from the order date. Every month I was told "another month!" until after six months I finally gave up and asked for a refund. They look like a great company, and hopefully they will fix their supply issues soon but I'd not recommend them until they manage to get better at predicting shipping dates.
- kungito 9y ago
  Can you really expect a correct shipping date from someone who has just started doing it? They probably don't have established protocols and procedures for most of the process. Indie funding is mostly about doing something completely new with whatever money you can get and hoping for the best. I'm not saying it's ok to mess everything up but I do think you should adjust your expectations accordingly.
coldtea 9y ago
A second place Desktop OS in popularity (in desktop Linux, which itself holds just 1% or so of desktop OS share) and a niche PC manufacturer? Doesn't bode very well from a commercial perspective. Would even most KDE project contributors switch to one?
- petecox 9y ago
  IIRC, KDE 3.x made a lot of hard-coded assumptions about running on a desktop. Plasma was a re-write to be independent of the display and using Qt-Quick that Nokia had crafted for Symbian/Meego. But it's an egg and chicken problem. With no readily available KDE mobile hardware, developers won't port their desktop software to a 5 inch touch device. But in the past few weeks we've seen the Plasma team reach out to develop halium (common hardware base for sailfish and Ubuntu touch etc), assist with packaging for postmarketOS and this purism phone. So that's 3 backends make Plasma run on.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    I used to run KDE as my dev desktop, back around 2000-2003, even using Konqueror (khtml, quite primitive yet) as my main browser (of course the web was mostly non-dynamic, non-SPA back then). Anyway, I remember some attempts back them of having KDE running on some feature phones/ early smartphone platform, before even Nokia was involved IIRC.

144 points by foob 9y ago

Am I missing something? Why does FirefoxOS, for instance, not count as a "truly free smartphone"? Were there blob drivers or something? Or are we just forgetting them for the sake of the headline?

jcelerier 9y ago
> Were there blob drivers or something? yes
throwaway2048 9y ago
firefoxOS used the same braindamaged driver model as android, and a similar central store model.

iBelieve 9y ago

Does this mean they won't be using GNOME, or will this simply be another user interface option? The Purism fundraiser has mockups of a GNOME interface, and there was a recent [1] mailing list thread about starting a GNOME Mobile effort. I'm a GNOME user on my laptop, mainly because the design feels more polished than Plasma, so I would have liked to see a mobile initiative for GNOME. [1] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2017-September/msg00011.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2017-Sept...

foob 9y ago
It's my understanding that PureOS is currently Gnome based and that they're heavily leaning towards that remaining the default, but that they haven't made a final decision yet. It does sound like users will have the option to install either though.
- zlatan_todoric 9y ago
  We certainly will invest heavily into one DE (upon successful campaign that decision will be made) but we will also work with all interested parties and devote some resources to get other up (it is the same in case someone is trying to bring up other OS or DE, we will try to help such effort as much as we can). The point is to give to community working Free phone and finally disrupt the status quo.
  - carussell 9y ago
    How about you give the community a working free phone by shipping a phone that runs vanilla AOSP and try evolving it into what you think you want it to be? At least that way, when Linux-desktop-on-the-phone proves itself (again) to be an even worse failure than Linux-on-the-desktop, the world will still be left with a free phone, instead of a free phone that strangled by its associated with a doomed software strategy.
    - zlatan_todoric 9y ago
      On the phone we plan to produce, you will be able to install Android as matter of fact - it is just that we will not do it by our default as we want a pure Linux stack that is going to roll in updates normally as desktop is and not being attached to older kernels and heavy forks of ecosystem. Even for scale of Google it is not feasible to do it that way so they are now doing their own research and development (Fuchsia OS or something like that).
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    It helped Nokia a lot to switch from Gtk to Qt.
simion314 9y ago
KDE has the advantage of using Qt, Qt has paid developers working on it and it is also optimized for mobile.
pjmlp 9y ago
Well switching from Gtk to Qt has helped Nokia a lot on Maemo.
- flukus 9y ago
  The switch killed them. Had it been an earlier or later decision the would likely be in a very different place but their indecision and delays around the direction of maemo (after they bought trolltech) cost them everything.

brunoqc 9y ago

Are Linux applications going to use a lot of battery? Do they have wakelocks or something similar?

curt15 9y ago
This. Shorter battery life than in Windows is a frequent complaint about Linux on laptops, and for handheld computers battery life really needs to be a top priority.
- akerro 9y ago
  RedHat is working on it, you can signup to be a tester: https://hansdegoede.livejournal.com/18412.html https://hansdegoede.livejournal.com/18412.html
- brunoqc 9y ago
  Better battery usage for laptops is always a goal but I was thinking more in the sense that mobile OS have patterns to reduce battery usage. Android Oreo is even moving away from wakelocks. I guess it's not good enough and Linux apps don't even use that.
Elv13 9y ago
(KDE dev here) It is still an issue, but it's getting better. As far as I am concerned, Ring-KDE (a phone and Skype alternative app) is still eating too much power. It is a work in progress and is already much better than it was a couple months ago. Some of the dependencies my app use are also power hungry. This needs to be fixed. However it's nothing that can't be fixed. Enough profiling and powertop work will get us there.
- akerro 9y ago
  Ex-Tox developer here: >Ring-KDE (a phone and Skype alternative app) is still eating too much power. This will always be a nature of Ring and Tox because it uses DHT network to find peers and keep connections alive, this is CPU-hungry, therefore power consuming and it won't be accepted on mobile platforms. Also losing network connectivity for 3 seconds causes the client to reconnect to the network, find peers again, messages can be lost... Matrix is the way to go.

oldgun 9y ago

Really really love to see this going somewhere, but what advantage does PureOS have after UbuntuTouch, FirefoxOS, SailfishOS, TizenOS or even Windows Phone OS backed by a tech juggernaut failed to make an impact?

482794793792894 9y ago
That it doesn't need to make an impact. It'll be a hobbyists' project like desktop Linux that people will continue to push forward for its own sake.
bryanlarsen 9y ago
PureOS probably doesn't have a business plan dependent on selling millions of smartphones.
gue5t 9y ago
Not one of those had free drivers on any consumer-available hardware, so you're limited to kernels compatible with your binary blobs, which then limits your userspace, which leaves you firmly stuck in the insecure, slowly bitrotting past. All of them except Tizen were using Android kernels and bionic libc, and Tizen is a fucking garbage fire (read some of their GPL dumps or try to navigate their bizarre code-dumps-in-branches repo structure sometime). Desktop Linux is a success (as in, a viable option for those who want to avoid the downsides of proprietary OSes); the only reason there isn't such a viable non-user-hostile OS option on phones is driver support, and this effort says they'll ensure free-software drivers. Plus, by avoiding the braindead "App Store" model, you instantly have access to a huge and growing base of software, all for free. Finding software for Android is a hellish experience marred by invasive ads, malware, loads upon loads of spam, crappy wrappers for actual free software, profit-grubbing clones on the app you actually wanted, etc. By removing the perverse incentive of "users = $$$" the user experience of finding software improves drastically. The GUI of most free software isn't well-suited to a phone, but I would far rather wait for UI revamps while using software that does everything I want, as opposed to having to just shrug and give up on finding a web browser with a web inspector--what I ended up doing under Android and iOS.
Hjugo 9y ago

big_youth 9y ago

What is HN's opinion on Purism laptops? I'm looking for a new linux machine but I'm unfamiliar with Purism. Currently leaning toward a Lenovo X1 Carbon or 470s, possibly a system 76.

zlatan_todoric 9y ago
Purism CTO here. I will not comment other but I can say for ours - you get it preinstalled with coreboot (which will also get updates as it progresses), all works out of the box with Free software (we preinstall on it PureOS but you can install any distro out there). Touchpad was an issue in past but we changed now and have quite a good touchpad that just works. The case is anodized aluminum. All Purism Librems have hardware kill switches - which means you can disable physically mic/camera and wifi/bt. Backlit keyboard is now on all models if that is something you like. Also with every buy you support our ongoing development such as neutralizing entirely ME, reverse engineering missing bits, creating our own firmware, developing PureOS as well as having better and better product (also if suddenly there would be thousands and thousands of orders, it would put price down). P.S. because there is no Free software for Bluetooth (for WiFi/BT module) we have it disabled by default which means you would not be hit by latest Bluetooth exploit :D

fghtr 9y ago

Will it be more free than https://neo900.org https://neo900.org?

caffed 9y ago

As someone who tried to fund the Ubuntu Edge, I don't see this getting fully funded. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge#/ It probably wasn't 100% FOSS (blobs?, baseband?, ...), but that was a much more polished product soft+hardware, especially for touch based usage. That is not to say that I don't want it to get funded, rather the barriers to entry are high.

Nelkins 9y ago
On the other hand, Ubuntu Edge tried to raise $32 million. These folks are trying to raise $1.5 million. Seems like a much more reasonable goal.
- mixedbit 9y ago
  Right, and they did raise 12 million.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  Reasonable in that it's easier to raise, but is it reasonable in that it's enough to do what they want to do?
zlatan_todoric 9y ago
To be honest, you can't say that was much more polished product soft+hardware as they never made one. On the other hand, if they could raise 12mil I don't see why wouldn't people back this to 1.5 and more. While it certainly will have its issues we certainly can produce such device and it is going to be alternative. There are a lot of failed FLOSS hardware tries but people should never give up hope and as said, we can produce this one for sure and by we I mean entire community - FLOSS people and devs, average Joe's, people who care about privacy, security and freedom of them, their families and friends and people who are simply fed up with iOS/Android state.
akerro 9y ago
I supported Omnia Turris project on indiegogo, their goal was 100k, they reached over 1.2M by the end. I think the open source (hardware + software) high end router is a bigger niche than opensource phone. Wish them best, this might be the FirefoxOS/UbuntuPhone we were waiting for! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/turris-omnia-hi-performance-open-source-router-security-network https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/turris-omnia-hi-performan...

Nelkins 9y ago

Librem 5 funding page, for those looking for it: https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

whalesalad 9y ago

Hate to be that guy but this is certainly going to be a flop.

deltaprotocol 9y ago
So you hate to be that guy but you still feel like coming here to state your absolutely empty point of view without even a hint of an argument? This isn't the place for hate speech or for pouring your negativism. This is a beautiful project by beautiful people dedicated to an open mobile solution which the world dramatically needs. Let's give them strength and share only our best constructive criticism.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- carussell 9y ago
  Constructive criticism is not the same thing as positivism—especially unconditional positivism. Withholding advice because it might sound negative is the opposite of constructive. Saying, "don't do that; you'll die!" is almost always constructive, for example. Imagine being told to bite your tongue and be supportive after your friend has announced their intent to run through traffic to get to the shop across the street.
  - prophesi 9y ago
    Nah, "don't do that; you'll die because you may get hit by traffic!" is constructive criticism. You have to give a reason for your positivity or negativity.
    - carussell 9y ago
      I don't think we're going to agree if you think that "don't do that; you'll die!" is unconstructive hate speech and better left unsaid.
      - 9y ago

bmn__ 9y ago

Any idea how to switch the mouse-centric desktop in KDE 5.36 to the mobile/touch variant? I want to experiment a bit. IIRC in an earlier version that was a simple matter of installing an additional package and switching a quite obvious setting in the control panel, but now I can't find it anymore…

akerro 9y ago
Plasma5 has a mobile variant that works on phones, I used it for a few days and it was quite alright for such young project. No crashes and not laggy at all, but it lacks applications that I use daily and games. https://plasma-mobile.org/ https://plasma-mobile.org/
- bmn__ 9y ago
  Now that you reminded me of the name, I could search around. (Package names were plasma-mobile-* and plasma-active-*.) KDE/Plasma Active was packaged last in 2014 for major distros, but no release since then. The old packages are not installable any more. Feels quite dead from the end-user perspective. Version 6 is not packaged anywhere AFAICT.

chc4 9y ago

I want to love Plasma Mobile. But development on it has always looked extremely dead every time I've checked on it since it has came out, and there are next to no phones that it's been ported to. I've never even seen someone mention using it online, unlike Ubuntu Touch or FirefoxOS or Sailfish (when they were all alive). Honestly, it's felt like it's been thrown by the wayside ever since it came out, and that's not encouraging to the thought of running it on a phone that you'd use as a daily driver.

zlatan_todoric 9y ago
KDE community is awesome and all they needed to revive things around plasma mobile effort is to have dedicated device and with Librem5 they would get exactly that.
emilsedgh 9y ago
Ubuntu Touch was sponsored by Canonical and Firefox OS was backed by Mozilla. Plasma is truly a community effort. So of course you haven't heard about it much. I think at any given time there are only a handful of paid developers employed by a few small and big companies working on it. That means there's not much resources and almost no paid marketing. It's also not fashionable anymore. Ubuntu Touch and FirefoxOS and a bunch of other projects got cancelled because the parent companies didn't expect a proper ROI. Plasma Mobile has been going slow but steady. There's no company to pull off the resources. Also, the community if determined to provide a Free As In Freedom experience on desktop. Hopefully they can do it on phones as well. Their agenda is only software freedom and privacy. Disclaimer: Used to be a KDE contributor, in no way associated with Plasma Mobile.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  "Plasma Mobile has been going slow but steady. There's no company to pull off the resources." Then there's also no company to dedicate resources, and do the unfun work that still needs to get done. "Their agenda is only software freedom and privacy." I hate to say it, but I don't see the phrase "works well" and "stable" in there. Which, while fine for a desktop, is not fine for a phone.
- 9y ago

mixedbit 9y ago

I think the initial goal of Purism should be to make a working device with WiFi and GSM drivers and a minimal software layer on top. Even a command line tools for things like making a call, or sending an SMS would be enough for the initial release. Let then a small group of enthusiastic early adopters experiment with different UIs on top. It is not possible for a small organization to release a product that will compete with iOS or Android from the start. I think Firefox OS and Ubuntu Phone could have failed because they had too ambitious initial goals and targeted too wide group with they early devices.

fabrice_d 9y ago

I applaud and support the HW side of this, this is absolutely needed and could be a game changer. Keep also in mind this is a v1. However I have reservations on the software choice. Mobile OSes live and die depending on the app ecosystem that is available. If you want lots of people to use your system, your need the popular apps to be on board. That will be hard with a KDE or Gnome based UI, and a second class citizen web support. The developer community has millions of iOS, Android and Web devs, but likely only thousands of Gnome/KDE ones. Getting top-notch PWA integration could ease that but that's unlikely to be a high priority. That being said, I feel they are happy with not being mainstream and that's fine too. Just different expectations.

prophesi 9y ago
Well, KDE uses QT, which has a good bit of support, and is developed by a paid team. Plasma Mobile's original goal was to support GTK/Sailfish/Android apps[0], so I have a little bit of hope. After being let down by so many privacy-oriented phones, I'm still doubtful but will back up this project. [0] https://www.pcworld.com/article/2953812/operating-systems/kde-unveils-plasma-mobile-a-free-and-open-linux-os-for-phones.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2953812/operating-systems/kd... under "An inclusive platform that supports many apps" section.
zlatan_todoric 9y ago
In first wave we plan to have couple of working apps such as dialer, mail, browser, audio/video player but gradually community will hop on and port/create apps for it. Sure, we start against millions of apps in other ecosystem but on average people don't use more than 20 apps often and I for one dislike that every website out there has created their own iOS/Android app when I can simply use one app for all them - browser. Also never underestimate the power of GNU/Linux community - it has by far most of hackers on it and it is doing their thing for decades already without slowing down at any single point. Also, we will try to help and support any community that will work on getting their OS/app on Librem 5. It would be phone produced by Purism and supported by us, but it would truly be one from people for people. :)
- 9y ago

gsich 9y ago

Baseband too?

alasdair_ 9y ago

I paid for a Purism "Libre 13" laptop with a supposed shipping date that was roughly a month away from the order date. Every month I was told "another month!" until after six months I finally gave up and asked for a refund. They look like a great company, and hopefully they will fix their supply issues soon but I'd not recommend them until they manage to get better at predicting shipping dates.

kungito 9y ago
Can you really expect a correct shipping date from someone who has just started doing it? They probably don't have established protocols and procedures for most of the process. Indie funding is mostly about doing something completely new with whatever money you can get and hoping for the best. I'm not saying it's ok to mess everything up but I do think you should adjust your expectations accordingly.

coldtea 9y ago

A second place Desktop OS in popularity (in desktop Linux, which itself holds just 1% or so of desktop OS share) and a niche PC manufacturer? Doesn't bode very well from a commercial perspective. Would even most KDE project contributors switch to one?

petecox 9y ago
IIRC, KDE 3.x made a lot of hard-coded assumptions about running on a desktop. Plasma was a re-write to be independent of the display and using Qt-Quick that Nokia had crafted for Symbian/Meego. But it's an egg and chicken problem. With no readily available KDE mobile hardware, developers won't port their desktop software to a 5 inch touch device. But in the past few weeks we've seen the Plasma team reach out to develop halium (common hardware base for sailfish and Ubuntu touch etc), assist with packaging for postmarketOS and this purism phone. So that's 3 backends make Plasma run on.
- coldtea 9y ago
  I used to run KDE as my dev desktop, back around 2000-2003, even using Konqueror (khtml, quite primitive yet) as my main browser (of course the web was mostly non-dynamic, non-SPA back then). Anyway, I remember some attempts back them of having KDE running on some feature phones/ early smartphone platform, before even Nokia was involved IIRC.