4 ms·

So, Harvard has professors that don't understand/accept the principles of rehabilitation. Sad, but, unfortunately, hardly shocking. There are many people like t

by sgift 9y ago

So, Harvard has professors that don't understand/accept the principles of rehabilitation. Sad, but, unfortunately, hardly shocking. There are many people like this all around the world.

justinpombrio 9y ago
From the professors: "If officials who take a careful look at the case decide that Harvard should move forward, then we think that the university should do everything in its power and ability to welcome Jones here and support her, and we are indeed happy to play a part in that effort,” they continued. “We have stated our concerns as questions, and we hope they are treated as nothing more nor less than questions, not as an implicit or explicit judgment against a person and her candidacy.” The administrators that actually made the decision did not comment.
- masklinn 9y ago
  OTOH "we're just asking questions" is downright weasely.
  - zabuni 9y ago
    There's a reason "just asking questions" is known as JAQing off. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions
volkk 9y ago
I think this is very interesting. If you're sitting in class and you find out that the person in your group project murdered a 4 year old at one point, I would understand if they were to be extremely uncomfortable. I would also understand if they accepted them and supported the rehabilitation. I don't know how to feel about it, really
- sgift 9y ago
  Sure. I would probably feel uncomfortable too, but I stop short of saying others should be denied something because I feel uncomfortable. Otherwise, the world would be a very different place.
  - volkk 9y ago
    I think ultimately it's not just the feelings of discomfort, but more like a "tarnished" reputation for Harvard that it probably strives very hard to maintain. (Not that I agree with it)
mfoy_ 9y ago
Academia is largely political-- and politics has a long-running "tough on crime" stance.
johan_larson 9y ago
In fairness, she is a convicted murderer. And just try to imagine the magnitude of the blowback if she ever did anything wrong on campus, particularly to some precious darling of wealthy and connected parents. I'm not saying the Harvard administration made the right choice here, but they certainly had cause to be cautious.
- sgift 9y ago
  > In fairness, she is a convicted murderer. Who did her time and paid her dues to society. That's the point of rehabilitation.
  - SamReidHughes 9y ago
    What makes you think people get rehabilitated?
- danso 9y ago
  So why ever release prisoners? Should institutions always be doubtful bystanders of the U.S. justice system and its rehabilitation guidelines?
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    Why ever release someone who murderered a 4-year-old? Do we need to bother to find out whether something can be saved there? Why not treat it like a traffic accident death and say "this person is equivalent to nonexistent" and keep her in the prison until she is dead?
  - johan_larson 9y ago
    > Should institutions always be doubtful bystanders of the U.S. justice system and its rehabilitation guidelines? In some cases, that's how it works, yes. Many employers refuse to hire ex-cons. A felony conviction will bar you from some professional certifications entirely. And because of sex-offender registries, people convicted of sex crimes find it very difficult to live in built-up areas, since they are required to live away from areas frequented by children. A serious criminal record is a quick ticket out of basically all of respectable society, including the part that people try to enter by earning lofty degrees from prestigious institutions of higher learning. We as a society clearly don't have anything close to full confidence in the rehabilitation of criminals.

by sgift 9y ago

So, Harvard has professors that don't understand/accept the principles of rehabilitation. Sad, but, unfortunately, hardly shocking. There are many people like this all around the world.

justinpombrio 9y ago

From the professors: "If officials who take a careful look at the case decide that Harvard should move forward, then we think that the university should do everything in its power and ability to welcome Jones here and support her, and we are indeed happy to play a part in that effort,” they continued. “We have stated our concerns as questions, and we hope they are treated as nothing more nor less than questions, not as an implicit or explicit judgment against a person and her candidacy.” The administrators that actually made the decision did not comment.

masklinn 9y ago
OTOH "we're just asking questions" is downright weasely.
- zabuni 9y ago
  There's a reason "just asking questions" is known as JAQing off. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

volkk 9y ago

I think this is very interesting. If you're sitting in class and you find out that the person in your group project murdered a 4 year old at one point, I would understand if they were to be extremely uncomfortable. I would also understand if they accepted them and supported the rehabilitation. I don't know how to feel about it, really

sgift 9y ago
Sure. I would probably feel uncomfortable too, but I stop short of saying others should be denied something because I feel uncomfortable. Otherwise, the world would be a very different place.
- volkk 9y ago
  I think ultimately it's not just the feelings of discomfort, but more like a "tarnished" reputation for Harvard that it probably strives very hard to maintain. (Not that I agree with it)

mfoy_ 9y ago

Academia is largely political-- and politics has a long-running "tough on crime" stance.

johan_larson 9y ago

In fairness, she is a convicted murderer. And just try to imagine the magnitude of the blowback if she ever did anything wrong on campus, particularly to some precious darling of wealthy and connected parents. I'm not saying the Harvard administration made the right choice here, but they certainly had cause to be cautious.

sgift 9y ago
> In fairness, she is a convicted murderer. Who did her time and paid her dues to society. That's the point of rehabilitation.
- SamReidHughes 9y ago
  What makes you think people get rehabilitated?
danso 9y ago
So why ever release prisoners? Should institutions always be doubtful bystanders of the U.S. justice system and its rehabilitation guidelines?
- ggg9990 9y ago
  Why ever release someone who murderered a 4-year-old? Do we need to bother to find out whether something can be saved there? Why not treat it like a traffic accident death and say "this person is equivalent to nonexistent" and keep her in the prison until she is dead?
- johan_larson 9y ago
  > Should institutions always be doubtful bystanders of the U.S. justice system and its rehabilitation guidelines? In some cases, that's how it works, yes. Many employers refuse to hire ex-cons. A felony conviction will bar you from some professional certifications entirely. And because of sex-offender registries, people convicted of sex crimes find it very difficult to live in built-up areas, since they are required to live away from areas frequented by children. A serious criminal record is a quick ticket out of basically all of respectable society, including the part that people try to enter by earning lofty degrees from prestigious institutions of higher learning. We as a society clearly don't have anything close to full confidence in the rehabilitation of criminals.