7 ms·

Chrome OS native development

113 points by AlexeyBrin 9y ago

kumarvvr 9y ago
Its scary to think how much more Google will know about us if it gets into the OS market too.
- tombert 9y ago
  I'm a bit confused; isn't Android basically them getting into the OS market?
lando2319 9y ago
I did nodeJS development on my Chromebook for a while, it worked well, the only thing that was missing is the 'you complete me' autocomplete plugin for Vim, but I think there's a way to get that working.
pjmlp 9y ago
Crouton is not Chrome OS. Even the author acknowledges that with "Running Chrome OS and Crouton side by side is the easiest path for a complete Unix like development experience."
- AlexeyBrin 9y ago
  The article presents ways to code directly on Chrome OS, without Crouton, you just need to read past the first paragraphs.
leggomylibro 9y ago
Nice - I like Chromebooks for on-the-go work because they are light, have great battery life, and Google's tentacles make for a slick UI. I use crouton and xiwi, though, because while native is nice, you can't beat surfacing X windows into Chrome tabs. I love the cheap 10-11" ones for stuff like OpenSCAD and KiCAD. (Also, if you keep your work backed up offline, $200-300 for a replacement isn't bad, compared to a high-end powerhouse. That's nice in a mobile machine; life happens.)
- jrowley 9y ago
  I'm pleasantly surprised to hear you can run KiCAD on a chromebook. I have one (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Chromebook-Wi-Fi-11-6-Inch-Model/dp/B009LL9VDG https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Chromebook-Wi-Fi-11-6-Inch-Mo...) with some tiny processor and it crashed yesterday with a single tab open. I'll have to try out your setup!
- bgrohman 9y ago
  I use a Chromebook with Crouton as my main personal laptop now, and it has worked well for me. I'm using i3wm instead of a traditional desktop environment. http://bryangrohman.com/ubuntu-i3wm-chromebook/ http://bryangrohman.com/ubuntu-i3wm-chromebook/
joshiefishbein 9y ago
Just to be clear, Chrome OS is a Unix-based OS right? They don't immediately explain that in their docs and, being a web dev, it's hard to tell from the outside.
- loudmax 9y ago
  Chrome OS uses a Linux kernel. I believe much of it comes from Gentoo.
- satysin 9y ago
  Correct, Chrome OS is a Linux-based distribution. I believe it is/was based on Gentoo although I may be misremembering that.
  - wanda 9y ago
    You are correct. Gentoo was selected for its Portage package management system.
- carussell 9y ago
  Fourth paragraph of the article: > Chrome OS is Linux under the hood so, in principle, you can run any standalone Linux binary on it. More precisely, Chrome OS is based on Gentoo Linux.
TremendousT 9y ago
See also https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoswikisite/home/what-s-new-in-dev-and-beta/shell-acess-with-verified-boot https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoswikisite/home/what-s-n...
jopsen 9y ago
docker on chrome is would probably satisfy all these use cases...
VikingCoder 9y ago
Don't forget that newer ChromeOS devices support running Android Apps, including Termux. It doesn't have an X built in, but you can do a ton of stuff with it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14863580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14863580
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  Yeah, at one point I had a whole non-dev-mode workflow set up for working on Love2D games. There are Android apps for text editing, version control, and even one for running .love files. Even the shader access worked.
- geokon 9y ago
  except development seems to have stalled. Very few devices are still supported, even after a year+ since the first one. For instance my C201P is still not supported even though the C100 which has identical hardware has had support for a long time
  - VikingCoder 9y ago
    I have a Samsung Chromebook 3, and in the time I've owned it, Android Support has moved from Dev channel to Beta channel. Seems like development is active from where I'm sitting, anyway.
hexrcs 9y ago
A new "made by Google" Chromebook codenamed "Eve" is rumored to be unveiled on the Oct 4 Google event. If the rumor is true then I think Google is now really paying more attention to the laptop market, and the whole Chrome OS ecosystem is very likely to get more mature in the near future. I would love to see JetBrains tools running natively on Chrome OS one day. source: https://chromeunboxed.com/google-hardware-event-could-be-on-october-4th-again-this-year/ https://chromeunboxed.com/google-hardware-event-could-be-on-...
- wslh 9y ago
  It sounds reasonable. More thinking that Microsoft Windows and notebooks don't get along and have plenty of issues. This makes competition easier. If Chrome OS is well integrated with the hardware that makes a difference abd follows the Apple route.
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  Oh, they are definitely paying more attention to the laptop market. They partnered with Samsung recently to make Chromebook Plus/Pro models, and the ARM version came with a strange 6-core processor only described as, 'OP1.' It looks like it's a Rockchip with two Cortex-A72s, four Cortex-A53s, and a recent Mali GPU. But the 'OP' branding is apparently an attempt by Google to brand or designate ARM chips that have certain peripherals, performance-enhancing features, and support for ChromeOS stuff. https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/22/14691396/google-chromebook-arm-laptop-op1-processor-apptop https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/22/14691396/google-chromeboo...
  - izacus 9y ago
    I was surprised how good the Samsung Chromebook (ARM version) was - it worked decently well, ran pretty much all Android apps I tested (which filled the gaps in ChromeOS very well!) and the stylus was useful for notetatking.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- monkmartinez 9y ago
pier25 9y ago
I'm guessing you can't really distribute your native apps to your users. What about Android dev for Chrome OS? Does it allow you to use C and C++ NDK when running on a Chromebook?
monkmartinez 9y ago
The thing is, you can get a Windows laptop with a bigger SSD, more RAM and ports for the same price as a decent Chromebook. Instead of jumping through hoops to run linux on chromeos, you can just install the distro of your choice as a windows replacement. My opinion: Developing on a chromebook is like typing with a hand behind your back; You can do it... but it doesn't make a lot of objective sense unless you have bizarre constraints that force you to make such concessions.
- bpye 9y ago
  "Okay" Chromebooks seem to cost less than the equivalent Windows laptop. The CPU and memory is often fine but I agree, they are all too often limited by the size of eMMMC storage. I managed to get a HP Chromebook 13 G1 for 250$, 3200*1800 IPS display, 4GB RAM, Core m3 CPU but 32GB eMMC. Even playing around with a compressed filesystem it's limited, especially since 4GB RAM basically mandates I have some swap space. Ultimately I'm left with about 16GB free. There is a micro SD slot but that isn't very fast.
  - sharmajai 9y ago
    That's an amazing price given it's retailing for more than twice that. One option to expand storage is have an always-inserted, low-profile USB 3 flash drive like SanDisk Ultra Fit, providing read speeds upto 150 MB/s.
  - leggomylibro 9y ago
    HardKernel makes ODroid boards which offer board-mounted eMMC as an alternative storage medium; you can choose between a normal microSD card, or a small custom eMMC PCB with a mezzanine connector: http://www.vesalia.de/pic/odroidc1emmc.jpg http://www.vesalia.de/pic/odroidc1emmc.jpg It'd be cool to see flash memory slots put on ARM laptop boards like you see DRAM slots today. "16GB expandable to 2x 128GB!"
    - kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
      M.2 SSDs are the solution. Many low end laptops support them without listing it on the spec sheet. Look around for service manuals with mobo pictures to determine what one supports before making a purchase.
twotwotwo 9y ago
I'm using a Chromebook that I like pretty well as a fancy terminal. A setup that interests me is Kenn White's at https://blog.lessonslearned.org/building-a-more-secure-development-chromebook/ https://blog.lessonslearned.org/building-a-more-secure-devel... -- keeping it out of dev mode and using Android apps to fill some gaps. Big blocker for me starting over and doing that is VPN support. I have to decipher how to convert my work's OpenVPN config to Chrome's ONC format.
- nilleo 9y ago
  I'm currently running with this approach as well on a Chromebook Plus. I'm still not entirely switched over to using it full-time but it's very usable for a lot of terminal-based development.
yebyen 9y ago
What kind of terminal are people using that develop on ChromeOS? I used a Samsung XE303C for a while and I was happy with my options in Crouton, but I could not get used to using a terminal in a Chrome tab. I understand there is a way to disable the behavior that "ctrl+w immediately closes the tab and terminates the shell" since I hit that key combo enough times to turn me off of doing important work in a Chrome tab altogether, that might help, but I wonder if anyone has come up with a really nice solution that they'd be willing to share here.
- isr 9y ago
  Install the crosh extension (which depends on the ssh extension). Now you have a better term in a standalone window. It's more configurable. You can open the javascript console and set your preferred colours, turn off certain keybindings (so they can pass through to the stuff running inside your terminal), etc. Here's a dump of my notes on this: ---- ● preferences ●● general info See [^ nassh faq] (yes, not the 'hterm hack' file, confusing eh?) for details on how to configure. See [^ pref mgr] for the full list of configurable preferences. To configure, you need to: - run crosh shell in a browser tab (not standalone window) - open 'Developer Tools', console. This will open a javascript repl side-by-side with the crosh window, within the same browser tab Get the current value of a preference: term_.prefs_.get('OPTION NAME') Set new value: term_.prefs_.set('OPTION NAME', <NEW-VALUE>) Reset to default: term_.prefs_.reset('pref-name') Reset all preferences to default: localStorage.clear() ●● copy/paste By default: - selected text will be automatically copied - Ctrl+Shift+v will paste into hterm These defaults seem fine by me :) ●● basic changes Fixes the ALT key (mostly, anyway): term_.prefs_.set('alt-sends-what', '8-bit') ●● $TERM Actually, hterm is already set to 'xterm-256color' by default. ChromeOS must change that to 'xterm' somewhere. term_.prefs_.get('environment') ●● look & feel The bloody scrollbar (I use gnu-screen's scrollback buffer instead) and bell are annoying: term_.prefs_.set('scrollbar-visible', false) term_.prefs_.set('audible-bell-sound', '') This is my preferred font size (174x51). See [^ nassh faq] for more info on setting fonts, blinking cursors, etc. term_.prefs_.set('font-size', 13) Colours can be set using either: - a CSS name - in hex, with #rrggbb - in decimal, with rgba(red, green, blue, opacity) - opacity = a number from 0 to 1. Best suited for a semi-transparent cursor term_.prefs_.set('foreground-color', 'ivory') term_.prefs_.set('background-color', #002b36) term_.prefs_.set('cursor-color', 'rgba(255, 20, 147, 0.75)') See [^ css colors] for an easy to use chart. ●● override chrome shortcuts There are many chrome shortcuts which get in the way. Running hterm/ssh in a seperate window will disable many of them (C-w, C-n, C-t). Some are still left, like the Ctrl+<number> and Alt+<number> shortcuts (switch to n'th tab, switch to n'th widow). To disable these: term_.prefs_.set('pass-ctrl-number', false) term_.prefs_.set('pass-alt-number', false) Use this in conjunction with chromeos/settings/"Keyboard settings"/"Treat top row keys as function keys". I'm not sure what the most convenient combo is, yet! Remember that Search+[1-0,-+] = F1 to F12, as well. term_.prefs_.set('media-keys-are-fkeys', true)
chad-autry 9y ago
Not mentioned, but for node.js dev termux almost gets there, but just falls short. You can't hit a node.js server running in android/termux from a full fledged local ChromeOS browser tab. It doesn't have port access. Have to go run an android browser. Alternatively, I've been just doing browser based dev. The free GCP google cloud shell lets me edit and host so long as I have a connection. If I wanted I could still keep it in sync with git running under termux.
- bostand 9y ago
  Give me xwindows support in termux and I will happily ditch every other os.

113 points by AlexeyBrin 9y ago

kumarvvr 9y ago

Its scary to think how much more Google will know about us if it gets into the OS market too.

tombert 9y ago
I'm a bit confused; isn't Android basically them getting into the OS market?

lando2319 9y ago

I did nodeJS development on my Chromebook for a while, it worked well, the only thing that was missing is the 'you complete me' autocomplete plugin for Vim, but I think there's a way to get that working.

pjmlp 9y ago

Crouton is not Chrome OS. Even the author acknowledges that with "Running Chrome OS and Crouton side by side is the easiest path for a complete Unix like development experience."

AlexeyBrin 9y ago
The article presents ways to code directly on Chrome OS, without Crouton, you just need to read past the first paragraphs.

leggomylibro 9y ago

Nice - I like Chromebooks for on-the-go work because they are light, have great battery life, and Google's tentacles make for a slick UI. I use crouton and xiwi, though, because while native is nice, you can't beat surfacing X windows into Chrome tabs. I love the cheap 10-11" ones for stuff like OpenSCAD and KiCAD. (Also, if you keep your work backed up offline, $200-300 for a replacement isn't bad, compared to a high-end powerhouse. That's nice in a mobile machine; life happens.)

jrowley 9y ago
I'm pleasantly surprised to hear you can run KiCAD on a chromebook. I have one (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Chromebook-Wi-Fi-11-6-Inch-Model/dp/B009LL9VDG https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Chromebook-Wi-Fi-11-6-Inch-Mo...) with some tiny processor and it crashed yesterday with a single tab open. I'll have to try out your setup!
bgrohman 9y ago
I use a Chromebook with Crouton as my main personal laptop now, and it has worked well for me. I'm using i3wm instead of a traditional desktop environment. http://bryangrohman.com/ubuntu-i3wm-chromebook/ http://bryangrohman.com/ubuntu-i3wm-chromebook/

joshiefishbein 9y ago

Just to be clear, Chrome OS is a Unix-based OS right? They don't immediately explain that in their docs and, being a web dev, it's hard to tell from the outside.

loudmax 9y ago
Chrome OS uses a Linux kernel. I believe much of it comes from Gentoo.
satysin 9y ago
Correct, Chrome OS is a Linux-based distribution. I believe it is/was based on Gentoo although I may be misremembering that.
- wanda 9y ago
  You are correct. Gentoo was selected for its Portage package management system.
carussell 9y ago
Fourth paragraph of the article: > Chrome OS is Linux under the hood so, in principle, you can run any standalone Linux binary on it. More precisely, Chrome OS is based on Gentoo Linux.

TremendousT 9y ago

See also https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoswikisite/home/what-s-new-in-dev-and-beta/shell-acess-with-verified-boot https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoswikisite/home/what-s-n...

jopsen 9y ago

docker on chrome is would probably satisfy all these use cases...

VikingCoder 9y ago

Don't forget that newer ChromeOS devices support running Android Apps, including Termux. It doesn't have an X built in, but you can do a ton of stuff with it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14863580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14863580

leggomylibro 9y ago
Yeah, at one point I had a whole non-dev-mode workflow set up for working on Love2D games. There are Android apps for text editing, version control, and even one for running .love files. Even the shader access worked.
geokon 9y ago
except development seems to have stalled. Very few devices are still supported, even after a year+ since the first one. For instance my C201P is still not supported even though the C100 which has identical hardware has had support for a long time
- VikingCoder 9y ago
  I have a Samsung Chromebook 3, and in the time I've owned it, Android Support has moved from Dev channel to Beta channel. Seems like development is active from where I'm sitting, anyway.

hexrcs 9y ago

A new "made by Google" Chromebook codenamed "Eve" is rumored to be unveiled on the Oct 4 Google event. If the rumor is true then I think Google is now really paying more attention to the laptop market, and the whole Chrome OS ecosystem is very likely to get more mature in the near future. I would love to see JetBrains tools running natively on Chrome OS one day. source: https://chromeunboxed.com/google-hardware-event-could-be-on-october-4th-again-this-year/ https://chromeunboxed.com/google-hardware-event-could-be-on-...

wslh 9y ago
It sounds reasonable. More thinking that Microsoft Windows and notebooks don't get along and have plenty of issues. This makes competition easier. If Chrome OS is well integrated with the hardware that makes a difference abd follows the Apple route.
leggomylibro 9y ago
Oh, they are definitely paying more attention to the laptop market. They partnered with Samsung recently to make Chromebook Plus/Pro models, and the ARM version came with a strange 6-core processor only described as, 'OP1.' It looks like it's a Rockchip with two Cortex-A72s, four Cortex-A53s, and a recent Mali GPU. But the 'OP' branding is apparently an attempt by Google to brand or designate ARM chips that have certain peripherals, performance-enhancing features, and support for ChromeOS stuff. https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/22/14691396/google-chromebook-arm-laptop-op1-processor-apptop https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/22/14691396/google-chromeboo...
- izacus 9y ago
  I was surprised how good the Samsung Chromebook (ARM version) was - it worked decently well, ran pretty much all Android apps I tested (which filled the gaps in ChromeOS very well!) and the stylus was useful for notetatking.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
monkmartinez 9y ago

pier25 9y ago

I'm guessing you can't really distribute your native apps to your users. What about Android dev for Chrome OS? Does it allow you to use C and C++ NDK when running on a Chromebook?

monkmartinez 9y ago

The thing is, you can get a Windows laptop with a bigger SSD, more RAM and ports for the same price as a decent Chromebook. Instead of jumping through hoops to run linux on chromeos, you can just install the distro of your choice as a windows replacement. My opinion: Developing on a chromebook is like typing with a hand behind your back; You can do it... but it doesn't make a lot of objective sense unless you have bizarre constraints that force you to make such concessions.

bpye 9y ago
"Okay" Chromebooks seem to cost less than the equivalent Windows laptop. The CPU and memory is often fine but I agree, they are all too often limited by the size of eMMMC storage. I managed to get a HP Chromebook 13 G1 for 250$, 3200*1800 IPS display, 4GB RAM, Core m3 CPU but 32GB eMMC. Even playing around with a compressed filesystem it's limited, especially since 4GB RAM basically mandates I have some swap space. Ultimately I'm left with about 16GB free. There is a micro SD slot but that isn't very fast.
- sharmajai 9y ago
  That's an amazing price given it's retailing for more than twice that. One option to expand storage is have an always-inserted, low-profile USB 3 flash drive like SanDisk Ultra Fit, providing read speeds upto 150 MB/s.
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  HardKernel makes ODroid boards which offer board-mounted eMMC as an alternative storage medium; you can choose between a normal microSD card, or a small custom eMMC PCB with a mezzanine connector: http://www.vesalia.de/pic/odroidc1emmc.jpg http://www.vesalia.de/pic/odroidc1emmc.jpg It'd be cool to see flash memory slots put on ARM laptop boards like you see DRAM slots today. "16GB expandable to 2x 128GB!"
  - kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
    M.2 SSDs are the solution. Many low end laptops support them without listing it on the spec sheet. Look around for service manuals with mobo pictures to determine what one supports before making a purchase.

twotwotwo 9y ago

I'm using a Chromebook that I like pretty well as a fancy terminal. A setup that interests me is Kenn White's at https://blog.lessonslearned.org/building-a-more-secure-development-chromebook/ https://blog.lessonslearned.org/building-a-more-secure-devel... -- keeping it out of dev mode and using Android apps to fill some gaps. Big blocker for me starting over and doing that is VPN support. I have to decipher how to convert my work's OpenVPN config to Chrome's ONC format.

nilleo 9y ago
I'm currently running with this approach as well on a Chromebook Plus. I'm still not entirely switched over to using it full-time but it's very usable for a lot of terminal-based development.

yebyen 9y ago

What kind of terminal are people using that develop on ChromeOS? I used a Samsung XE303C for a while and I was happy with my options in Crouton, but I could not get used to using a terminal in a Chrome tab. I understand there is a way to disable the behavior that "ctrl+w immediately closes the tab and terminates the shell" since I hit that key combo enough times to turn me off of doing important work in a Chrome tab altogether, that might help, but I wonder if anyone has come up with a really nice solution that they'd be willing to share here.

isr 9y ago
Install the crosh extension (which depends on the ssh extension). Now you have a better term in a standalone window. It's more configurable. You can open the javascript console and set your preferred colours, turn off certain keybindings (so they can pass through to the stuff running inside your terminal), etc. Here's a dump of my notes on this: ---- ● preferences ●● general info See [^ nassh faq] (yes, not the 'hterm hack' file, confusing eh?) for details on how to configure. See [^ pref mgr] for the full list of configurable preferences. To configure, you need to: - run crosh shell in a browser tab (not standalone window) - open 'Developer Tools', console. This will open a javascript repl side-by-side with the crosh window, within the same browser tab Get the current value of a preference: term_.prefs_.get('OPTION NAME') Set new value: term_.prefs_.set('OPTION NAME', <NEW-VALUE>) Reset to default: term_.prefs_.reset('pref-name') Reset all preferences to default: localStorage.clear() ●● copy/paste By default: - selected text will be automatically copied - Ctrl+Shift+v will paste into hterm These defaults seem fine by me :) ●● basic changes Fixes the ALT key (mostly, anyway): term_.prefs_.set('alt-sends-what', '8-bit') ●● $TERM Actually, hterm is already set to 'xterm-256color' by default. ChromeOS must change that to 'xterm' somewhere. term_.prefs_.get('environment') ●● look & feel The bloody scrollbar (I use gnu-screen's scrollback buffer instead) and bell are annoying: term_.prefs_.set('scrollbar-visible', false) term_.prefs_.set('audible-bell-sound', '') This is my preferred font size (174x51). See [^ nassh faq] for more info on setting fonts, blinking cursors, etc. term_.prefs_.set('font-size', 13) Colours can be set using either: - a CSS name - in hex, with #rrggbb - in decimal, with rgba(red, green, blue, opacity) - opacity = a number from 0 to 1. Best suited for a semi-transparent cursor term_.prefs_.set('foreground-color', 'ivory') term_.prefs_.set('background-color', #002b36) term_.prefs_.set('cursor-color', 'rgba(255, 20, 147, 0.75)') See [^ css colors] for an easy to use chart. ●● override chrome shortcuts There are many chrome shortcuts which get in the way. Running hterm/ssh in a seperate window will disable many of them (C-w, C-n, C-t). Some are still left, like the Ctrl+<number> and Alt+<number> shortcuts (switch to n'th tab, switch to n'th widow). To disable these: term_.prefs_.set('pass-ctrl-number', false) term_.prefs_.set('pass-alt-number', false) Use this in conjunction with chromeos/settings/"Keyboard settings"/"Treat top row keys as function keys". I'm not sure what the most convenient combo is, yet! Remember that Search+[1-0,-+] = F1 to F12, as well. term_.prefs_.set('media-keys-are-fkeys', true)

chad-autry 9y ago

Not mentioned, but for node.js dev termux almost gets there, but just falls short. You can't hit a node.js server running in android/termux from a full fledged local ChromeOS browser tab. It doesn't have port access. Have to go run an android browser. Alternatively, I've been just doing browser based dev. The free GCP google cloud shell lets me edit and host so long as I have a connection. If I wanted I could still keep it in sync with git running under termux.

bostand 9y ago
Give me xwindows support in termux and I will happily ditch every other os.