5 ms·

In my experience once you leave Android living without google is a lot easier then it sounds.

phoe-krk 9y ago
And go for which OS on mobile? On iOS, you fall into Apple's hands, Windows Mobile is dead, and other OSes are relatively non-existent.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bjpbakker 9y ago
  Purism's Librem 5 [1] looks like a very nice mobile phone alternative. It's highly privacy minded, at least. [1] - https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
  - enobrev 9y ago
    This looks great! I hope they can build what they're pitching. I look forward to buying one of these (or something like it) should it ever make it to market.
  - r3bl 9y ago
    ...and they're still crowdfunding it and don't expect the deliveries before 2019. Presumably, the question "go for which OS on mobile" refers to now, so Librem's definitely not an answer to the question above, even though it's a marvelous goal.
- tnova 9y ago
  Yeah, providing iOS as the "privacy alternative" to Android seems quite ridiculous.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  Windows Mobile is honestly still (for the short term while it exists) still a very solid option. I used to try to do the Android-without-Google thing, and it was nearly unmanageable, since pretty much every app on the platform depends on Play Services. (Most location-enabled apps won't work without Google Location Services on, for instance.) I actually have more apps available to me on a Windows 10 Mobile device than an Android device with Play disabled. And I'm able to do most everything I need to while sending drastically less information to my Microsoft account than I ever did to Google. Microsoft still updates every Windows 10 Mobile device monthly with security updates, direct from them, on the second Tuesday of every month. (I got an update for my 2014-era Windows Mobile phone on the 12th, for instance.) In many ways, this means Windows Mobile is still a more secure choice than most Android phones. Microsoft releases the update to all devices on the same day, regardless of OEM. I can say my phone isn't vulnerable to the BlueBorne thing that came out this week, but most Android users won't be able to speak to that.
  - r3bl 9y ago
    While your comment does apply to the large majority of Android users, there are some things worth keeping in mind: * It applies to non-Nexus/Pixel lines (before you say that this is an invalid argument, most of the Windows devices sold are Lumia devices, so presumably, yours is too). * It applies to people who don't change phones every six months (the amount of people I've witnessed updating Galaxy phones every year is equal to the amount of people I've seen upgrading iPhones every year). * It applies to people not using a relatively recent Samsung (https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb) or LG (https://lgsecurity.lge.com/security_updates.html https://lgsecurity.lge.com/security_updates.html) phones. The only valid security argument is that Windows phones and iPhones have longer support than Google (two years for upgrades to newer versions + one additional year of security updates). That's it. The rest is to blame solely on companies that make Android phones. Google is the only one out of all three that actually gives everyone a chance of using their OS. Microsoft (from what I could find) is only giving Windows Mobile free to some mobile companies. Apple is not providing that option to anyone. If the rest of the companies didn't actually try really hard to stand out from the rest of the Android crowd by modifying vanilla Android, we would have a completely different situation. ...which is another reason why I blame OEMs, not Google.
    - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
      Unlike the Lumia, Nexus/Pixel is a tiny percentage of the ecosystem, and not representative of the state of Android. And if you're looking to get away from Google as this thread is discussing, buying a $600 phone directly from them seems like moving in the wrong direction. Note that while I do carry a Lumia (the last one that works on Verizon), Microsoft gives equal direct support to phones made by other manufacturers, such as Acer, Alcatel, and HP, whom all receive the same updates at the exact same time. Another security argument for Windows Mobile is actually that while flaws are regularly found and patched in the code due to the shared codebase with Windows desktop, it has a significantly reduced attack surface compared to Windows 10 proper. Nobody invests resources into developing exploits for Windows 10 Mobile, so it's exceedingly unlikely for any to be out there. Security by obscurity is not something you should rely on (I rely on monthly patches), but it does help. Blaming OEMs for Android's update woes relies on some significant misconceptions. First and foremost, every OEM that ships Android devices with Google Play has to sign an agreement binding them to a truly incredible number of terms for how the platform operates and what is on the phone (this is known as the Google MADA). This spans everything from requiring Google's approval to release products to which apps must be preinstalled and set as default on each new device. If Google wished to control updates, they would. Bear in mind that many OEMs offer stock Android or as close to stock Android as possible: If Google was willing to handle updates directly for Android devices, at least a few OEMs would've opted in already. The reality is that creating and testing releases for Android devices is an expensive proposition that Google wants no part in. The way Android devices update was designed and developed by Google, and the position that Google is not responsible for it seems indefensible.
- pdimitar 9y ago
  > On iOS, you fall into Apple's hands This is ridiculuous and if you're over 16, you should be ashamed of yourself. Frequenting HN and using such teen/vague talk is not constructive. iCloud is not secure. That's an accepted fact by now. If you don't sync stuff to iCloud, your iPhone's local data is much more secure than in any Android device. This is also a fact. Reference: the "Storage" permission in Android; once you give it to an app, it can scan your entire device; as a comparison, an iDevice storage permission only allows it access to its sandboxed storage).
  - yoz-y 9y ago
    > iCloud is not secure. That's an accepted fact by now. Is it? (accepted as fact)
    - pdimitar 9y ago
      Apple is quick to hand over iCloud backups, even in the famous iPhone 5c case when they refused to unlock the device itself. Doesn't that make it an accepted fact?
      - yoz-y 9y ago
        Ok by this definition I agree. (I would not say that apple was "quick" to handover the data but that is beside the point).
        pdimitar 9y ago
        Doesn't "The Fappening" count as well? That case when several celebrities got their photos leaked. I mean, I do maintain Apple is more privacy-friendly than Google but IMO iCloud leaves a lot to be desired still.
        alphabettsy 9y ago
        They were phished.. I can see how that somewhat falls on Apple, but it’s absolutely possible of any service if the users gives away their password.
swalladge 9y ago
Yeah sadly even though you can install a rom like Lineageos, many apps require the google play services installed, which then requires the Gapps to be flashed. Which kinda defeats the purpose... :'(
- franga2000 9y ago
  Google Play Services really isn't that bad. Sure it's annoying and proprietary, but it doesn't give them any more control than what Apple has by default on their devices.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > install a rom like Lineageos And you have to trust a binary from a "nightly" build hosted on who knows where for your model - There's so much possibility for stuff to happen I'm not sure it's even a good recommendation to make.
  - swalladge 9y ago
    Yeah you're right... :( At least it gives a better user experience because there isn't all the pre-installed bloatware.
  - rphlx 9y ago
    It's possible to build a lineageos ROM from source, mostly. There are still some binary blobs and it's true that virtually no one has the time to rigorously audit the entire source tree themselves anyway, but technically you do not absolutely have to trust a giant ROM binary that their auto-builder spit out.

And go for which OS on mobile? On iOS, you fall into Apple's hands, Windows Mobile is dead, and other OSes are relatively non-existent.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bjpbakker 9y ago
Purism's Librem 5 [1] looks like a very nice mobile phone alternative. It's highly privacy minded, at least. [1] - https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
- enobrev 9y ago
  This looks great! I hope they can build what they're pitching. I look forward to buying one of these (or something like it) should it ever make it to market.
- r3bl 9y ago
  ...and they're still crowdfunding it and don't expect the deliveries before 2019. Presumably, the question "go for which OS on mobile" refers to now, so Librem's definitely not an answer to the question above, even though it's a marvelous goal.
tnova 9y ago
Yeah, providing iOS as the "privacy alternative" to Android seems quite ridiculous.
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
Windows Mobile is honestly still (for the short term while it exists) still a very solid option. I used to try to do the Android-without-Google thing, and it was nearly unmanageable, since pretty much every app on the platform depends on Play Services. (Most location-enabled apps won't work without Google Location Services on, for instance.) I actually have more apps available to me on a Windows 10 Mobile device than an Android device with Play disabled. And I'm able to do most everything I need to while sending drastically less information to my Microsoft account than I ever did to Google. Microsoft still updates every Windows 10 Mobile device monthly with security updates, direct from them, on the second Tuesday of every month. (I got an update for my 2014-era Windows Mobile phone on the 12th, for instance.) In many ways, this means Windows Mobile is still a more secure choice than most Android phones. Microsoft releases the update to all devices on the same day, regardless of OEM. I can say my phone isn't vulnerable to the BlueBorne thing that came out this week, but most Android users won't be able to speak to that.
- r3bl 9y ago
  While your comment does apply to the large majority of Android users, there are some things worth keeping in mind: * It applies to non-Nexus/Pixel lines (before you say that this is an invalid argument, most of the Windows devices sold are Lumia devices, so presumably, yours is too). * It applies to people who don't change phones every six months (the amount of people I've witnessed updating Galaxy phones every year is equal to the amount of people I've seen upgrading iPhones every year). * It applies to people not using a relatively recent Samsung (https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb) or LG (https://lgsecurity.lge.com/security_updates.html https://lgsecurity.lge.com/security_updates.html) phones. The only valid security argument is that Windows phones and iPhones have longer support than Google (two years for upgrades to newer versions + one additional year of security updates). That's it. The rest is to blame solely on companies that make Android phones. Google is the only one out of all three that actually gives everyone a chance of using their OS. Microsoft (from what I could find) is only giving Windows Mobile free to some mobile companies. Apple is not providing that option to anyone. If the rest of the companies didn't actually try really hard to stand out from the rest of the Android crowd by modifying vanilla Android, we would have a completely different situation. ...which is another reason why I blame OEMs, not Google.
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    Unlike the Lumia, Nexus/Pixel is a tiny percentage of the ecosystem, and not representative of the state of Android. And if you're looking to get away from Google as this thread is discussing, buying a $600 phone directly from them seems like moving in the wrong direction. Note that while I do carry a Lumia (the last one that works on Verizon), Microsoft gives equal direct support to phones made by other manufacturers, such as Acer, Alcatel, and HP, whom all receive the same updates at the exact same time. Another security argument for Windows Mobile is actually that while flaws are regularly found and patched in the code due to the shared codebase with Windows desktop, it has a significantly reduced attack surface compared to Windows 10 proper. Nobody invests resources into developing exploits for Windows 10 Mobile, so it's exceedingly unlikely for any to be out there. Security by obscurity is not something you should rely on (I rely on monthly patches), but it does help. Blaming OEMs for Android's update woes relies on some significant misconceptions. First and foremost, every OEM that ships Android devices with Google Play has to sign an agreement binding them to a truly incredible number of terms for how the platform operates and what is on the phone (this is known as the Google MADA). This spans everything from requiring Google's approval to release products to which apps must be preinstalled and set as default on each new device. If Google wished to control updates, they would. Bear in mind that many OEMs offer stock Android or as close to stock Android as possible: If Google was willing to handle updates directly for Android devices, at least a few OEMs would've opted in already. The reality is that creating and testing releases for Android devices is an expensive proposition that Google wants no part in. The way Android devices update was designed and developed by Google, and the position that Google is not responsible for it seems indefensible.
pdimitar 9y ago
> On iOS, you fall into Apple's hands This is ridiculuous and if you're over 16, you should be ashamed of yourself. Frequenting HN and using such teen/vague talk is not constructive. iCloud is not secure. That's an accepted fact by now. If you don't sync stuff to iCloud, your iPhone's local data is much more secure than in any Android device. This is also a fact. Reference: the "Storage" permission in Android; once you give it to an app, it can scan your entire device; as a comparison, an iDevice storage permission only allows it access to its sandboxed storage).
- yoz-y 9y ago
  > iCloud is not secure. That's an accepted fact by now. Is it? (accepted as fact)
  - pdimitar 9y ago
    Apple is quick to hand over iCloud backups, even in the famous iPhone 5c case when they refused to unlock the device itself. Doesn't that make it an accepted fact?
    - yoz-y 9y ago
      Ok by this definition I agree. (I would not say that apple was "quick" to handover the data but that is beside the point).
      - pdimitar 9y ago
        Doesn't "The Fappening" count as well? That case when several celebrities got their photos leaked. I mean, I do maintain Apple is more privacy-friendly than Google but IMO iCloud leaves a lot to be desired still.
        alphabettsy 9y ago
        They were phished.. I can see how that somewhat falls on Apple, but it’s absolutely possible of any service if the users gives away their password.

swalladge 9y ago

Yeah sadly even though you can install a rom like Lineageos, many apps require the google play services installed, which then requires the Gapps to be flashed. Which kinda defeats the purpose... :'(

franga2000 9y ago
Google Play Services really isn't that bad. Sure it's annoying and proprietary, but it doesn't give them any more control than what Apple has by default on their devices.
ekianjo 9y ago
> install a rom like Lineageos And you have to trust a binary from a "nightly" build hosted on who knows where for your model - There's so much possibility for stuff to happen I'm not sure it's even a good recommendation to make.
- swalladge 9y ago
  Yeah you're right... :( At least it gives a better user experience because there isn't all the pre-installed bloatware.
- rphlx 9y ago
  It's possible to build a lineageos ROM from source, mostly. There are still some binary blobs and it's true that virtually no one has the time to rigorously audit the entire source tree themselves anyway, but technically you do not absolutely have to trust a giant ROM binary that their auto-builder spit out.