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And he didn't mention that in Arch a routine upgrade can break everything which rather doesn't happen in the release-based distros. It has happened to me more t

by bbv-if 9y ago

And he didn't mention that in Arch a routine upgrade can break everything which rather doesn't happen in the release-based distros. It has happened to me more that once over the last 8 years. I still use it nevertheless, but it's definitely not for everyone.

arc_of_descent 9y ago
I used Arch Linux around 4 years back. I did a routine upgrade and it broke my system. What is this rolling release fiasco? Even Ubuntu, which I use now has a "release" (technically an pt-get upgrade), almost every other day. But I've never had it break my system. If you keep your Ubuntu updated a dist-upgrade works just fine. I might try Arch again, but for now I'm sticking to Ubuntu.
- zdkl 9y ago
  No judgement, I've been in the same place. What you describe sounds like the consequence of installing a lot of packages. Arch "prefers" when you strip it down to what you need, if only because that way you don't need to worry about too many version mismatches.
  - KozmoNau7 9y ago
    So if you actually try to use the system for more than a handful of things, it tends to break? That's not very reassuring.
    - zdkl 9y ago
      You put it well in another thread with "it absolutely isn't [...] a good distro for people who just want to get on with life." If you're looking for your computer to Just Work(tm) look elsewhere. However I stand by my comment about it being an outstanding learning tool for the curious & future sysadmins.
number6 9y ago
This Never happened to me in 5 years of arch. I always considered this a hoax. How did Arch break?
- bbv-if 9y ago
  To name a few: when systemd was introduced; when there were changes made to the file structure (moving everything to /usr); when kde4 was replaced with kde5. And there were more issues, I just don't remember all of them. Reading the news before the update could have helped sometimes but I don't do that every time I execute `pacman -Syu` for various reasons; and sometimes problems are unexpected or just bugs fixed on the next update.
  - KozmoNau7 9y ago
    I will second this, I faced these exact same issues, for the same reasons. If you don't subscribe to the Arch news feed, you're taking a chance on every upgrade, that your system will not boot correctly.
    - zdkl 9y ago
      Yeah but that's the point of Arch: teaching new blood to RTFM when it's patchday. You can trivially fubar an arch install by updating your base install+user additions if you're not in the loop with the releases of whatever you installed.
      - KozmoNau7 9y ago
        That also makes it a bad distro to choose unless you want to be a hardcore sysadmin and micromanage your personal system. That's generally what distro maintainers are supposed to minimize for the end users. I see people recommending Arch for newbies, who maybe just want to dip their toes. They're figuratively thrown into the deep end, and I just don't think that's a particularly good idea for most people.
        9y ago
agumonkey 9y ago
In years I might have had 3 breakage, it didn't feel like a specific issue because for instance ubuntu upgrade install didn't work well enough either.

by bbv-if 9y ago

arc_of_descent 9y ago

I used Arch Linux around 4 years back. I did a routine upgrade and it broke my system. What is this rolling release fiasco? Even Ubuntu, which I use now has a "release" (technically an pt-get upgrade), almost every other day. But I've never had it break my system. If you keep your Ubuntu updated a dist-upgrade works just fine. I might try Arch again, but for now I'm sticking to Ubuntu.

zdkl 9y ago
No judgement, I've been in the same place. What you describe sounds like the consequence of installing a lot of packages. Arch "prefers" when you strip it down to what you need, if only because that way you don't need to worry about too many version mismatches.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  So if you actually try to use the system for more than a handful of things, it tends to break? That's not very reassuring.
  - zdkl 9y ago
    You put it well in another thread with "it absolutely isn't [...] a good distro for people who just want to get on with life." If you're looking for your computer to Just Work(tm) look elsewhere. However I stand by my comment about it being an outstanding learning tool for the curious & future sysadmins.

number6 9y ago

This Never happened to me in 5 years of arch. I always considered this a hoax. How did Arch break?

bbv-if 9y ago
To name a few: when systemd was introduced; when there were changes made to the file structure (moving everything to /usr); when kde4 was replaced with kde5. And there were more issues, I just don't remember all of them. Reading the news before the update could have helped sometimes but I don't do that every time I execute `pacman -Syu` for various reasons; and sometimes problems are unexpected or just bugs fixed on the next update.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  I will second this, I faced these exact same issues, for the same reasons. If you don't subscribe to the Arch news feed, you're taking a chance on every upgrade, that your system will not boot correctly.
  - zdkl 9y ago
    Yeah but that's the point of Arch: teaching new blood to RTFM when it's patchday. You can trivially fubar an arch install by updating your base install+user additions if you're not in the loop with the releases of whatever you installed.
    - KozmoNau7 9y ago
      That also makes it a bad distro to choose unless you want to be a hardcore sysadmin and micromanage your personal system. That's generally what distro maintainers are supposed to minimize for the end users. I see people recommending Arch for newbies, who maybe just want to dip their toes. They're figuratively thrown into the deep end, and I just don't think that's a particularly good idea for most people.
      - 9y ago

agumonkey 9y ago

In years I might have had 3 breakage, it didn't feel like a specific issue because for instance ubuntu upgrade install didn't work well enough either.