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Google and Facebook have a lot more to lose than the EU in this regard, which is why they will eventually submit to whatever the EU deems reasonable. They are

Google and Facebook have a lot more to lose than the EU in this regard, which is why they will eventually submit to whatever the EU deems reasonable. They are never going to withdraw from the EU. The money they would lose would be immense. The fact that people think Google and Facebook have this kind of power over a developed market of 500 million people is hilarious.

whb07 9y ago
They don't have offices and don't pay taxes for 99% of countries. I don't see you standing up for the sovereign rights of the people from French Guiana or Egypt or Sudan. You see it just so happens that the full breadth of services offered by Facebook and Google are available essentially with a simple internet connection. I'd dare say you could sign up for Gmail and Facebook as a scientist living in Antártica and who owns that? It just so happens that the EU machinery is very well adept at being strong enforcers of taxation, in the very same way that you might see the Mafia send in a couple of guys to physically threaten you if you don't pay your debts. Bravo to them, I guess?
- ionised 9y ago
  I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make with this rant other than what sounds like tax is theft. Would you rather multinationals were not taxed at all? If something is tricky to get right is it not worth doing at all? If that's what you believe you're not going to find many on your side.
  - vixen99 9y ago
    I think we can see how you define 'rant'.
  - fooster 9y ago
    I find the idea of no corporate tax pretty appealing yes.
  - whb07 9y ago
    First, let's establish some basic points. Governments don't have money, people do. Companies don't have money, people do. In the case of government, it taxes the money to get funds to spend in its activities. In the case of companies, the investors and employees are the ones who own that money. If you hold those basic tenets true, then why deal with taxing moneyless companies? If you're to look at the breakdown of stock ownership in a large public company you would find that it's large funds comprised millions of people's savings which really own Apple and Google. If an Italian man owns Google stock then yeah he should be taxed according to the rules of the society he lives in. But why should the working grandmother in Idaho have to pay EU taxes as she owns a 0.000001% ownership or whatever in Google? In what rational world is that "fair"? If you were to remove corporate taxes, more money would flow directly back to those who own the public company(in the form of dividends) or be invested back into R&D or more employees. If we assume that our Idaho grandmother would get an extra $400 bucks in the form of a cheque from Google paying dividends, then maybe she could travel to Europe and spend more money directly than would have been possible had EU taxed Google. Or, Grandma's investments would grow along with the funds of institutional investors who would have more capital and would love to invest elsewhere. So there would be more capital looking to be placed and you come up with a smart idea and get funded. Suddenly you create a new giant company in the heat of Europe(I'm guessing you're European?) and employ thousands of people which would otherwise be home with parents working temp jobs and being stifled by a deep bureaucracy in Brussels that keeps getting bigger and fatter every year!
    - Oletros 9y ago
      > But why should the working grandmother in Idaho have to pay EU taxes as she owns a 0.000001% ownership or whatever in Google? In what rational world is that "fair"? She doesn't pay any taxes in the EU.
      - whb07 9y ago
        Uh yeah she does if she owns any Google or FB stock via 401k, or directly owning shares in the company she's getting taxed by EU as she owns the company. That's why it's called a public company and they are openly traded in the market. When Google gets taxed, grandma in Idaho gets taxed. Corporations don't have money, the people who own the corporation do. Any money coming in would either be invested back to further the company or passed back to the owners of the company. In this case, it's our grandma from Idaho. I'd love to hear any sound logic argument negating anything I just said.
- Oletros 9y ago
  When taxes are compared to Mafia, there is no point in discussions
  - whb07 9y ago
    It's the actual definition of government, it does everything with the threat of violence. In the grand scheme of things, the social contract between members of society, some rights are given up to the state to be the intermediary. They enforce rules with threat of encarceration and are able to deal with problems via force (cops and military). So yes, taxes are collected just like the Mafiosi collect their debts.
    - Oletros 9y ago
      > So yes, taxes are collected just like the Mafiosi collect their debts. as I said, when someone can make such claims like this, no discussion is possible.

whb07 9y ago

They don't have offices and don't pay taxes for 99% of countries. I don't see you standing up for the sovereign rights of the people from French Guiana or Egypt or Sudan. You see it just so happens that the full breadth of services offered by Facebook and Google are available essentially with a simple internet connection. I'd dare say you could sign up for Gmail and Facebook as a scientist living in Antártica and who owns that? It just so happens that the EU machinery is very well adept at being strong enforcers of taxation, in the very same way that you might see the Mafia send in a couple of guys to physically threaten you if you don't pay your debts. Bravo to them, I guess?

ionised 9y ago
I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make with this rant other than what sounds like tax is theft. Would you rather multinationals were not taxed at all? If something is tricky to get right is it not worth doing at all? If that's what you believe you're not going to find many on your side.
- vixen99 9y ago
  I think we can see how you define 'rant'.
- fooster 9y ago
  I find the idea of no corporate tax pretty appealing yes.
- whb07 9y ago
  First, let's establish some basic points. Governments don't have money, people do. Companies don't have money, people do. In the case of government, it taxes the money to get funds to spend in its activities. In the case of companies, the investors and employees are the ones who own that money. If you hold those basic tenets true, then why deal with taxing moneyless companies? If you're to look at the breakdown of stock ownership in a large public company you would find that it's large funds comprised millions of people's savings which really own Apple and Google. If an Italian man owns Google stock then yeah he should be taxed according to the rules of the society he lives in. But why should the working grandmother in Idaho have to pay EU taxes as she owns a 0.000001% ownership or whatever in Google? In what rational world is that "fair"? If you were to remove corporate taxes, more money would flow directly back to those who own the public company(in the form of dividends) or be invested back into R&D or more employees. If we assume that our Idaho grandmother would get an extra $400 bucks in the form of a cheque from Google paying dividends, then maybe she could travel to Europe and spend more money directly than would have been possible had EU taxed Google. Or, Grandma's investments would grow along with the funds of institutional investors who would have more capital and would love to invest elsewhere. So there would be more capital looking to be placed and you come up with a smart idea and get funded. Suddenly you create a new giant company in the heat of Europe(I'm guessing you're European?) and employ thousands of people which would otherwise be home with parents working temp jobs and being stifled by a deep bureaucracy in Brussels that keeps getting bigger and fatter every year!
  - Oletros 9y ago
    > But why should the working grandmother in Idaho have to pay EU taxes as she owns a 0.000001% ownership or whatever in Google? In what rational world is that "fair"? She doesn't pay any taxes in the EU.
    - whb07 9y ago
      Uh yeah she does if she owns any Google or FB stock via 401k, or directly owning shares in the company she's getting taxed by EU as she owns the company. That's why it's called a public company and they are openly traded in the market. When Google gets taxed, grandma in Idaho gets taxed. Corporations don't have money, the people who own the corporation do. Any money coming in would either be invested back to further the company or passed back to the owners of the company. In this case, it's our grandma from Idaho. I'd love to hear any sound logic argument negating anything I just said.
Oletros 9y ago
When taxes are compared to Mafia, there is no point in discussions
- whb07 9y ago
  It's the actual definition of government, it does everything with the threat of violence. In the grand scheme of things, the social contract between members of society, some rights are given up to the state to be the intermediary. They enforce rules with threat of encarceration and are able to deal with problems via force (cops and military). So yes, taxes are collected just like the Mafiosi collect their debts.
  - Oletros 9y ago
    > So yes, taxes are collected just like the Mafiosi collect their debts. as I said, when someone can make such claims like this, no discussion is possible.