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Why was the other side of the story banned on HN, but this one allowed? This is retaliation for Kaspersky showing the middle finger to CIA backdoors, as was re

Why was the other side of the story banned on HN, but this one allowed? This is retaliation for Kaspersky showing the middle finger to CIA backdoors, as was reported in multiple non-western news outlets over the past week.

mosselman 9y ago
It would be valuable to us newcomers to this issue if you could provide us with some links to these stories. Also I'd be interested in seeing that these got banned on HN.
- mtgx 9y ago
  After a quick search I didn't find those stories (although I remember reading something about that, too, many months ago, and I also remember seeing Kaspersky blog posts deconstructing US-made malware like Stuxnet and whatnot), but I did find this interesting article, specifically these paragraphs are interesting: > Officials tell CyberScoop they believe the FBI has engaged in deliberate media leaks and overblown classified congressional briefings to build the case around Kaspersky. > The FBI has briefed private sector companies across several industries, urging them to cut ties with Kaspersky on security grounds > Officials from the NSA, CIA and DIA have spent the last year privately criticizing what they perceive as the bureau’s escalatory strategy, which they say is often based on lackluster intelligence work. > No evidence of a relationship between Kaspersky and the Kremlin has been made public, which has fueled a public debate about Washington’s tactics against the private company. > “There is little doubt that the U.S. government’s handling of their Kaspersky claims will cause trouble for U.S. companies,” Jake Williams, a former NSA employee and founder of Rendition Infosec, told CyberScoop. “The data released so far against Kaspersky is weak and inconclusive and applies to many U.S. information security companies. Making claims without substance to back those claims will just lead to speculation that U.S. companies are involved in similar activities. Rebuking these claims is made difficult since the burden of ‘proof’ established by the U.S. is so low.” https://www.cyberscoop.com/kaspersky-fbi-investigation-nsa-cia-dia/ https://www.cyberscoop.com/kaspersky-fbi-investigation-nsa-c...
- draugadrotten 9y ago
  Could it be http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyberspying/russian-researchers-expose-breakthrough-u-s-spying-program-idUSKBN0LK1QV20150216 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyberspying/russian-re... "The U.S. National Security Agency has figured out how to hide spying software ... That long-sought and closely guarded ability was part of a cluster of spying programs discovered by Kaspersky Lab, the Moscow-based security software maker that has exposed a series of Western cyberespionage operations."
Gatsky 9y ago
HN doesn't ban stories friend. Why don't you post a link? Maybe Kaspersky is completely innocent, but the fact is they are based in a country which would have no problem in asking/coercing/outright forcing them to spy on other nations. That is a competitive disadvantage for a security company. If you think that's unfair then talk to Putin.
- draugadrotten 9y ago
  > ...they are based in a country which would have no problem in asking/coercing/outright forcing them to spy on other nations. As a non-US citizen, I laughed at this. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/business/us-snooping-on-companies-cited-by-china.html?mcubz=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/business/us-snooping-on-c... https://qz.com/105490/how-the-us-government-uses-information-from-spying-on-foreign-companies/ https://qz.com/105490/how-the-us-government-uses-information... and so on
  - Gatsky 9y ago
    I'm not American either.
    - jkrioca 9y ago
      that's even sadder
- pjc50 9y ago
  > HN doesn't ban stories friend. Not only will the mods ban stories if they're offensive enough, but quite a lot of "social justice" stories get flagged into oblivion by the userbase. All sorts of things vanish from HN. Some of which is necessary.
- havetocharge 9y ago
  Hasn't US been spying on Germany, the ally, according to the leaked docs? Anyway, your statement is completely true, and in my opinion it applies across the board to all countries.
- 9y ago
dagenleg 9y ago
The banned story was hosted on a shady website and quickly flagged. The reason for that was (if I remember correctly) that the website was some kind of right wing outlet.
- tryingagainbro 9y ago
  Reminder: Russia does have a vast troll operation, complete with websites, writers, commenters, TV station, fb pages and so on. https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+propaganda+machine+internet https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+propaganda+machine+i...
  - tomatsu 9y ago
    And the US doesn't? By the way "propaganda" and "public relations" are exactly the same thing.
    - tryingagainbro 9y ago
      >> By the way "propaganda" and "public relations" are exactly the same thing. If it's identified as US State Dept said "this" you know what to expect. So, IMO, it's different. Very different
      - bjshepard 9y ago
        Research Project Mockingbird.
    - trapperkeeper74 9y ago
      It would be difficult to find, outside of a full totalitarian regime, a country that doesn't exploit media, including news, advertising and pop culture, for manufacturing consent customized to monetize and motivate the populace to be compliant, profitable, useful consumers.
    - JohnStrange 9y ago
      These are totally different things. In public relations the source is clearly identifiable. If the Kreml or White House gives a press conference, it's up to you whether to believe them or not. No problem with that, comrade!
tryingagainbro 9y ago
>> This is retaliation for Kaspersky showing the middle finger to CIA backdoors, as was reported in multiple non-western news outlets over the past week. Yes, comrade! They did the same to FSB backdoors, no? On a different note, do you have open offices, free sodas etc https://www.engadget.com/2015/03/27/interview-russian-troll-factory-employee/ https://www.engadget.com/2015/03/27/interview-russian-troll-... ?
- hristov 9y ago
  They do not have to. If Kaspersky blocks the CIA backdoors and McAfee blocks the FSB backdoors, it will be fine by me.
- dang 9y ago
  This comment breaks the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Please read and follow them from now on. Insinuating astroturfing and shillage is the short path to internet hell. It's a game of snakes and ladders. Avoid that snake. I've posted about this many times if anyone wants to read more about why HN has this rule: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme....
trapperkeeper74 9y ago
The "two-sides" cargo cult is often a false equivocation: like teaching evolution and creationism. There are some obviously wrong opinions that aren't worth legimitizing. That is different than a reporter playing devil's advocate, finding adversarial opinions and asking tough questions. It is especially onerous when one "side" is one of these alt-right or mainstream rags that push talking points agenda instead of honest facts.
danmaz74 9y ago
How can this comment be the top one on the thread? The other side wasn't banned. It just wasn't upvoted. I would expect this comment on Reddit, not here.
- pycal 9y ago
  It was flagged, amid speculation in the thread that the story was a hoax on account of the site hosts links to anti-semitic "resources" edit: not sure why this is being downvoted, all I am citing are facts from this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15227543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15227543
JohnStrange 9y ago
Maybe, maybe not. In any case, if you want to primarily protect against US government snooping, Kaspersky might be a better choice than a US anti-virus product. If you want to primarily protect against Russian government snooping, Kaspersky seems like a bad choice. To me it seems perfectly reasonable to prohibit US government authorities from using Russian antivirus software that installs with highest privileges. I'm amazed they were allowed to do this in the first place.
golfer 9y ago
What is the other side of the story? Link to the article please.
fortythirteen 9y ago
What you're seeing are two malicious actors making use of their propaganda arms. Regardless of high-horsing, everybody spies on everybody.

mosselman 9y ago

It would be valuable to us newcomers to this issue if you could provide us with some links to these stories. Also I'd be interested in seeing that these got banned on HN.

mtgx 9y ago
After a quick search I didn't find those stories (although I remember reading something about that, too, many months ago, and I also remember seeing Kaspersky blog posts deconstructing US-made malware like Stuxnet and whatnot), but I did find this interesting article, specifically these paragraphs are interesting: > Officials tell CyberScoop they believe the FBI has engaged in deliberate media leaks and overblown classified congressional briefings to build the case around Kaspersky. > The FBI has briefed private sector companies across several industries, urging them to cut ties with Kaspersky on security grounds > Officials from the NSA, CIA and DIA have spent the last year privately criticizing what they perceive as the bureau’s escalatory strategy, which they say is often based on lackluster intelligence work. > No evidence of a relationship between Kaspersky and the Kremlin has been made public, which has fueled a public debate about Washington’s tactics against the private company. > “There is little doubt that the U.S. government’s handling of their Kaspersky claims will cause trouble for U.S. companies,” Jake Williams, a former NSA employee and founder of Rendition Infosec, told CyberScoop. “The data released so far against Kaspersky is weak and inconclusive and applies to many U.S. information security companies. Making claims without substance to back those claims will just lead to speculation that U.S. companies are involved in similar activities. Rebuking these claims is made difficult since the burden of ‘proof’ established by the U.S. is so low.” https://www.cyberscoop.com/kaspersky-fbi-investigation-nsa-cia-dia/ https://www.cyberscoop.com/kaspersky-fbi-investigation-nsa-c...
draugadrotten 9y ago
Could it be http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyberspying/russian-researchers-expose-breakthrough-u-s-spying-program-idUSKBN0LK1QV20150216 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyberspying/russian-re... "The U.S. National Security Agency has figured out how to hide spying software ... That long-sought and closely guarded ability was part of a cluster of spying programs discovered by Kaspersky Lab, the Moscow-based security software maker that has exposed a series of Western cyberespionage operations."

Gatsky 9y ago

HN doesn't ban stories friend. Why don't you post a link? Maybe Kaspersky is completely innocent, but the fact is they are based in a country which would have no problem in asking/coercing/outright forcing them to spy on other nations. That is a competitive disadvantage for a security company. If you think that's unfair then talk to Putin.

draugadrotten 9y ago
> ...they are based in a country which would have no problem in asking/coercing/outright forcing them to spy on other nations. As a non-US citizen, I laughed at this. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/business/us-snooping-on-companies-cited-by-china.html?mcubz=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/business/us-snooping-on-c... https://qz.com/105490/how-the-us-government-uses-information-from-spying-on-foreign-companies/ https://qz.com/105490/how-the-us-government-uses-information... and so on
- Gatsky 9y ago
  I'm not American either.
  - jkrioca 9y ago
    that's even sadder
pjc50 9y ago
> HN doesn't ban stories friend. Not only will the mods ban stories if they're offensive enough, but quite a lot of "social justice" stories get flagged into oblivion by the userbase. All sorts of things vanish from HN. Some of which is necessary.
havetocharge 9y ago
Hasn't US been spying on Germany, the ally, according to the leaked docs? Anyway, your statement is completely true, and in my opinion it applies across the board to all countries.
9y ago

dagenleg 9y ago

The banned story was hosted on a shady website and quickly flagged. The reason for that was (if I remember correctly) that the website was some kind of right wing outlet.

tryingagainbro 9y ago
Reminder: Russia does have a vast troll operation, complete with websites, writers, commenters, TV station, fb pages and so on. https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+propaganda+machine+internet https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+propaganda+machine+i...
- tomatsu 9y ago
  And the US doesn't? By the way "propaganda" and "public relations" are exactly the same thing.
  - tryingagainbro 9y ago
    >> By the way "propaganda" and "public relations" are exactly the same thing. If it's identified as US State Dept said "this" you know what to expect. So, IMO, it's different. Very different
    - bjshepard 9y ago
      Research Project Mockingbird.
  - trapperkeeper74 9y ago
    It would be difficult to find, outside of a full totalitarian regime, a country that doesn't exploit media, including news, advertising and pop culture, for manufacturing consent customized to monetize and motivate the populace to be compliant, profitable, useful consumers.
  - JohnStrange 9y ago
    These are totally different things. In public relations the source is clearly identifiable. If the Kreml or White House gives a press conference, it's up to you whether to believe them or not. No problem with that, comrade!

tryingagainbro 9y ago

>> This is retaliation for Kaspersky showing the middle finger to CIA backdoors, as was reported in multiple non-western news outlets over the past week. Yes, comrade! They did the same to FSB backdoors, no? On a different note, do you have open offices, free sodas etc https://www.engadget.com/2015/03/27/interview-russian-troll-factory-employee/ https://www.engadget.com/2015/03/27/interview-russian-troll-... ?

hristov 9y ago
They do not have to. If Kaspersky blocks the CIA backdoors and McAfee blocks the FSB backdoors, it will be fine by me.
dang 9y ago
This comment breaks the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Please read and follow them from now on. Insinuating astroturfing and shillage is the short path to internet hell. It's a game of snakes and ladders. Avoid that snake. I've posted about this many times if anyone wants to read more about why HN has this rule: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme....

trapperkeeper74 9y ago

The "two-sides" cargo cult is often a false equivocation: like teaching evolution and creationism. There are some obviously wrong opinions that aren't worth legimitizing. That is different than a reporter playing devil's advocate, finding adversarial opinions and asking tough questions. It is especially onerous when one "side" is one of these alt-right or mainstream rags that push talking points agenda instead of honest facts.

danmaz74 9y ago

How can this comment be the top one on the thread? The other side wasn't banned. It just wasn't upvoted. I would expect this comment on Reddit, not here.

pycal 9y ago
It was flagged, amid speculation in the thread that the story was a hoax on account of the site hosts links to anti-semitic "resources" edit: not sure why this is being downvoted, all I am citing are facts from this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15227543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15227543

JohnStrange 9y ago

Maybe, maybe not. In any case, if you want to primarily protect against US government snooping, Kaspersky might be a better choice than a US anti-virus product. If you want to primarily protect against Russian government snooping, Kaspersky seems like a bad choice. To me it seems perfectly reasonable to prohibit US government authorities from using Russian antivirus software that installs with highest privileges. I'm amazed they were allowed to do this in the first place.

golfer 9y ago

What is the other side of the story? Link to the article please.

fortythirteen 9y ago

What you're seeing are two malicious actors making use of their propaganda arms. Regardless of high-horsing, everybody spies on everybody.