5 ms·

I'm under the impression. That the idea of the token is that it would the method for which to use the service they claim to have built or will build. For examp

by Jonnax 9y ago

I'm under the impression. That the idea of the token is that it would the method for which to use the service they claim to have built or will build. For example if you're ICOing a distributed data store. The tokens will be what you spend d to store your data and you earn tokens by being a data store. What makes it also speculative and gives it value is that these tokens get traded on exchanges.

joosters 9y ago
We've already got tokens that do this job just fine. They go by different names, like dollars, euros or pounds. Want to be even more amazed? Your potential customers already possess these tokens! That means they could pay you for your service right now, without having to jump through lots of hoops obtaining the tokens through some unregulated, probably-illegal exchange. But no, go ahead and make your product more difficult for everyone to pay for. I'm sure that'll work out great.
- kaffeemitsahne 9y ago
  The point is that these services work via e.g. the ethereum blockchain (and the best of them will actually have something to gain by being decentralized and trustless). Good luck sending euros to an ethereum address.. Of course it's still up for debate whether it's necessary to have a separate ERC20 (standard ethereum token protocol) token, instead of simply paying with eth directly. One argument I've heard for this is to have the method of payment decoupled from the price volatility of eth, but I'm not entirely convinced by that.
  - novalis78 9y ago
    As the case of the recent 'whoppercoin' for BurgerKing in Russia exemplifies, tokens also can take on the form of reward points. In a world where all of these various enterprise related token fields are 'shapeshiftable' fascinating economic incentives and dynamics emerge. Your investment in one tech project might thus allow you to eat for free for a year and if Burgers aren't healthy in your ideal world you might soon walk into a farmers market and pay electronically with tokens shifted. If everyone is a bank and investor - capitalist I guess you could say - then all of a sudden (central) banks face their 'internet moment' just like publishers, music, retailers did before them.
    - paublyrne 9y ago
      You're not eating for free if you pay for the privilege ... The future you describe where the value of everything is obfuscated by currency proxies sounds like something we should be trying to avoid. Just like foreign aid restrictions often stipulate that machinery purchased with aid funds needs to come from the donor country, it would be a matter of time before fast food companies tried to pass off partial renumeration in coins redeemable only in the business, as a good thing. Edit:I realise I'm making a leap from what you describe and being speculative. But this is the sort of thing I feel this road leads to.
      - novalis78 9y ago
        You'd be eating 'free' in the sense that one of your investments might pay off and as soon as you step into BurgerKing your token will autoexchange to 'Whoopercoin' - purchased by your wallet app refilling your Burger King wallet. In fact there might be subscription services that tell you when the whoppercoin market experienced a pull back allowing you to take advantage and invite your friends. Yes, all speculative but technically absolutely doable.
  - dragandj 9y ago
    With a reference to the OP, good luck storing your data there too.
  - alexasmyths 9y ago
    "The point is that these services work via e.g. the ethereum blockchain (and the best of them will actually have something to gain by being decentralized and trustless). Good luck sending euros to an ethereum address.." Nobody cares about the issue of decentralization, but a small group of people, moreover, their concerns are not practical, they are intellectual. (Unless they are trying to do something illegal, in which case their concerns would be practical) From the average 'token user of Euros or Dollars' perspective - the current financial system has incredible integrity. There is zero advantage in 'decentralization'. There is zero risk from short term holding of any major currency. And they're massively liquid, especially in the natural region of that currency. 100% of 'Ether-anything' are nearly useless to the average person anywhere, whereas dollars are amazingly useful to Americans and others, for example. If there were a single, global, well thought-out 'Ehther' type currency, that were used in major and minor transactions - I can see some theoretical value in that. Conceptually, it's not crazy. But in practice, especially in terms of these small, one-off ICO's - they don't make any sense at all.
    - kaffeemitsahne 9y ago
      You and the average american don't care about trustless decentralized services -- so what? If we only developed whatever tech the average person cared about, we wouldn't be typing here on this website today.
      - alexasmyths 9y ago
        100% supportive of speculative tech development. But the point of tech is to create value, ultimately. 'Decentralization' doesn't necessarily offer anyone a whole lot of value. Ironically, it may have value in low-tech places with totally ridiculous currencies. But even in those areas, using USD or Euros, or even RMB would be a better option.
- have_faith 9y ago
  I'm assuming the difference being that the tokens (or crypto currencies) can be spent without payment processors or banks as middlemen. There are obvious downsides to this with fraud protection and the like. But it means money can flow without intermediaries.

by Jonnax 9y ago

joosters 9y ago

We've already got tokens that do this job just fine. They go by different names, like dollars, euros or pounds. Want to be even more amazed? Your potential customers already possess these tokens! That means they could pay you for your service right now, without having to jump through lots of hoops obtaining the tokens through some unregulated, probably-illegal exchange. But no, go ahead and make your product more difficult for everyone to pay for. I'm sure that'll work out great.

kaffeemitsahne 9y ago
The point is that these services work via e.g. the ethereum blockchain (and the best of them will actually have something to gain by being decentralized and trustless). Good luck sending euros to an ethereum address.. Of course it's still up for debate whether it's necessary to have a separate ERC20 (standard ethereum token protocol) token, instead of simply paying with eth directly. One argument I've heard for this is to have the method of payment decoupled from the price volatility of eth, but I'm not entirely convinced by that.
- novalis78 9y ago
  As the case of the recent 'whoppercoin' for BurgerKing in Russia exemplifies, tokens also can take on the form of reward points. In a world where all of these various enterprise related token fields are 'shapeshiftable' fascinating economic incentives and dynamics emerge. Your investment in one tech project might thus allow you to eat for free for a year and if Burgers aren't healthy in your ideal world you might soon walk into a farmers market and pay electronically with tokens shifted. If everyone is a bank and investor - capitalist I guess you could say - then all of a sudden (central) banks face their 'internet moment' just like publishers, music, retailers did before them.
  - paublyrne 9y ago
    You're not eating for free if you pay for the privilege ... The future you describe where the value of everything is obfuscated by currency proxies sounds like something we should be trying to avoid. Just like foreign aid restrictions often stipulate that machinery purchased with aid funds needs to come from the donor country, it would be a matter of time before fast food companies tried to pass off partial renumeration in coins redeemable only in the business, as a good thing. Edit:I realise I'm making a leap from what you describe and being speculative. But this is the sort of thing I feel this road leads to.
    - novalis78 9y ago
      You'd be eating 'free' in the sense that one of your investments might pay off and as soon as you step into BurgerKing your token will autoexchange to 'Whoopercoin' - purchased by your wallet app refilling your Burger King wallet. In fact there might be subscription services that tell you when the whoppercoin market experienced a pull back allowing you to take advantage and invite your friends. Yes, all speculative but technically absolutely doable.
- dragandj 9y ago
  With a reference to the OP, good luck storing your data there too.
- alexasmyths 9y ago
  "The point is that these services work via e.g. the ethereum blockchain (and the best of them will actually have something to gain by being decentralized and trustless). Good luck sending euros to an ethereum address.." Nobody cares about the issue of decentralization, but a small group of people, moreover, their concerns are not practical, they are intellectual. (Unless they are trying to do something illegal, in which case their concerns would be practical) From the average 'token user of Euros or Dollars' perspective - the current financial system has incredible integrity. There is zero advantage in 'decentralization'. There is zero risk from short term holding of any major currency. And they're massively liquid, especially in the natural region of that currency. 100% of 'Ether-anything' are nearly useless to the average person anywhere, whereas dollars are amazingly useful to Americans and others, for example. If there were a single, global, well thought-out 'Ehther' type currency, that were used in major and minor transactions - I can see some theoretical value in that. Conceptually, it's not crazy. But in practice, especially in terms of these small, one-off ICO's - they don't make any sense at all.
  - kaffeemitsahne 9y ago
    You and the average american don't care about trustless decentralized services -- so what? If we only developed whatever tech the average person cared about, we wouldn't be typing here on this website today.
    - alexasmyths 9y ago
      100% supportive of speculative tech development. But the point of tech is to create value, ultimately. 'Decentralization' doesn't necessarily offer anyone a whole lot of value. Ironically, it may have value in low-tech places with totally ridiculous currencies. But even in those areas, using USD or Euros, or even RMB would be a better option.
have_faith 9y ago
I'm assuming the difference being that the tokens (or crypto currencies) can be spent without payment processors or banks as middlemen. There are obvious downsides to this with fraud protection and the like. But it means money can flow without intermediaries.