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So I want to implement Common Consolidated Corporate Tax Base CCCTB across Europe, which means I want to have the power to determine the rules for the whole EU.

So I want to implement Common Consolidated Corporate Tax Base CCCTB across Europe, which means I want to have the power to determine the rules for the whole EU. I then create a report projecting that we could increase our tax revenue if we pass the law to give me more power. I have some thoughts. 1) The projected windfall from this CCCTB will not materialize... if we take history as a indicator. When ever does companies or people not react to increased taxes? 2) Losing the ability to attract international companies will hurt countries / cities that are lower on the marketability scale. Would the 'Celtic Tiger' miracle have happened if they did not have the sovereignty to attract international companies with lower taxes. That is doubtful at best. 3) Competition, including taxes, is great for Europeans. If we study history we see that competition is one of the components that resulted in the dominance of the west. (see Civilization: Is the West History?) 4) The biggest reason Brussels is doing this is not to have to ask each country for money anymore. These negotiations have become more tough for Brussels, since the countries are pushing back on exorbitant spending by Brussels.

mc32 9y ago
Why not for the whole world and get rid of tax havens for corps and for wealthy indivs as well? This would put pressure and incentives on govt's to be fairer about taxes in multiple ways. We've got corps who won't repatriate money cuz profits overseas...[apple and indivs with overseas shell cos, etc.]
- SilentCrossing 9y ago
  The article was about giving tax creation power to Brussels and removing that power from the EU countries. This would not result in a fairer tax, but a tax that you have voice in changing. Brussel bureaucrats are not voted into office by the people and can therefore also not be removed from office by the people. I agree that governments should strife for a fairer tax and a good start would be a simpler tax. There I agree that unnecessary complexity have created loopholes. I however do think that the European Union should set the example and start paying taxes like normal citizens in their respective countries. The European Patent Offices in Europe do not pay any taxes in the countries they are situated. They have their own internal low tax system. Talk about writing your own rules for avoiding taxes. Just to touch on the issue of USA companies not repatriating money back to the USA. This is a problem with the USA tax code. The Netherlands for example do not have this issue, since they have double tax treaties with various countries and when they do not have a treaty the participation exemptions kicks in. The participation exemption says that you will not be taxed again in the Netherlands if you own >= 5% of a foreign company when a dividend is payed from the daughter company to parent companies. The logic of the dutch is that foreign dividends have been taxes and is therefore exempt.
jmfayard 9y ago
> Competition, including taxes, is great for Europeans. If we study history we see that competition is one of the components that resulted in the dominance of the west. (see Civilization: Is the West History? I don't know. Competition for making the best science, technology, music, literature, food, ... seems different to me than just giving big corporations clever ways to avoid paying taxes for funding education, social security, infrastructure, ... Or, if that kind of competition is so positive, is the US tech sector doomed because it does not give enough leverage for google and facebook to avoid paying taxes there?
- SilentCrossing 9y ago
  I agree, that having companies compete on bringing out the best products or services is different from having countries compete on taxes. Just to clarify, countries do not give big corporates clever ways to avoid paying taxes totally, but do give them ways to pay less taxes in order to make themselves more attractive. There are various reason they do this, but they only do it if they as a location is not attractive compared to other locations. The issue is more complex if you dig deeper and start comparing the US and EU. As a general rule western Europe has lower corporate tax and higher income tax than the USA. If you dig deeper you can also see that certain business cluster do not need to give any tax breaks to attract and keep companies, because they have a thriving business cluster. Think of the wine-growing industry in California and the flower-growing business in the Netherlands. My main issue with centralizing the tax rules is that it will hurt the less attractive regions of Europe.
  - jmfayard 9y ago
    There are better ways than a broken tax system to help less attractive regions, for example less deflationary pressure from countries like Germany. A deal better than the status quo is possible
Iv 9y ago
Well you can see that as an act of competition between Brussels and the tax havens if you want to frame every human progress in terms of competition between actors.
- SilentCrossing 9y ago
  It is a competition on who has the sovereign power to levy tax. Brussels or the individual country.
  - Iv 9y ago
    Sure. In my book a competition is between two peers. When the two competitors are grossly asymmetrical I call that a conflict, and consider we are outside of the free market doctrine, but whatever floats your boat.
    - SilentCrossing 9y ago
      Good point. I do not dispute your wording.

mc32 9y ago

Why not for the whole world and get rid of tax havens for corps and for wealthy indivs as well? This would put pressure and incentives on govt's to be fairer about taxes in multiple ways. We've got corps who won't repatriate money cuz profits overseas...[apple and indivs with overseas shell cos, etc.]

SilentCrossing 9y ago
The article was about giving tax creation power to Brussels and removing that power from the EU countries. This would not result in a fairer tax, but a tax that you have voice in changing. Brussel bureaucrats are not voted into office by the people and can therefore also not be removed from office by the people. I agree that governments should strife for a fairer tax and a good start would be a simpler tax. There I agree that unnecessary complexity have created loopholes. I however do think that the European Union should set the example and start paying taxes like normal citizens in their respective countries. The European Patent Offices in Europe do not pay any taxes in the countries they are situated. They have their own internal low tax system. Talk about writing your own rules for avoiding taxes. Just to touch on the issue of USA companies not repatriating money back to the USA. This is a problem with the USA tax code. The Netherlands for example do not have this issue, since they have double tax treaties with various countries and when they do not have a treaty the participation exemptions kicks in. The participation exemption says that you will not be taxed again in the Netherlands if you own >= 5% of a foreign company when a dividend is payed from the daughter company to parent companies. The logic of the dutch is that foreign dividends have been taxes and is therefore exempt.

jmfayard 9y ago

> Competition, including taxes, is great for Europeans. If we study history we see that competition is one of the components that resulted in the dominance of the west. (see Civilization: Is the West History? I don't know. Competition for making the best science, technology, music, literature, food, ... seems different to me than just giving big corporations clever ways to avoid paying taxes for funding education, social security, infrastructure, ... Or, if that kind of competition is so positive, is the US tech sector doomed because it does not give enough leverage for google and facebook to avoid paying taxes there?

SilentCrossing 9y ago
I agree, that having companies compete on bringing out the best products or services is different from having countries compete on taxes. Just to clarify, countries do not give big corporates clever ways to avoid paying taxes totally, but do give them ways to pay less taxes in order to make themselves more attractive. There are various reason they do this, but they only do it if they as a location is not attractive compared to other locations. The issue is more complex if you dig deeper and start comparing the US and EU. As a general rule western Europe has lower corporate tax and higher income tax than the USA. If you dig deeper you can also see that certain business cluster do not need to give any tax breaks to attract and keep companies, because they have a thriving business cluster. Think of the wine-growing industry in California and the flower-growing business in the Netherlands. My main issue with centralizing the tax rules is that it will hurt the less attractive regions of Europe.
- jmfayard 9y ago
  There are better ways than a broken tax system to help less attractive regions, for example less deflationary pressure from countries like Germany. A deal better than the status quo is possible

Iv 9y ago

Well you can see that as an act of competition between Brussels and the tax havens if you want to frame every human progress in terms of competition between actors.

SilentCrossing 9y ago
It is a competition on who has the sovereign power to levy tax. Brussels or the individual country.
- Iv 9y ago
  Sure. In my book a competition is between two peers. When the two competitors are grossly asymmetrical I call that a conflict, and consider we are outside of the free market doctrine, but whatever floats your boat.
  - SilentCrossing 9y ago
    Good point. I do not dispute your wording.