6 ms·

I wonder how much revenue and profit would have lost Google and Facebook if they didn't exist in the EU

DVassallo 9y ago
How do they "exist" in the EU? One way to see it is that people from the EU are simply buying services from a US company. It's as if they caught a plane, and paid at a cash register in California. But instead of making the trip, they just sent a check.
- Oletros 9y ago
  > One way to see it is that people from the EU are simply buying services from a US company I would like how they do businesses, including Amazon and Apple if they leave the EU because the way you see it is totally wrong. Starting with data protection directives and following with dealing with VAT, and EU customers
- seszett 9y ago
  > How do they "exist" in the EU? They both have headquarters in Dublin.
  - Oletros 9y ago
    And physical presence in almost every EU country
  - DVassallo 9y ago
    So if they didn't have a physical presence in the EU, then it would have been fine not to tax them?
  - DannyBee 9y ago
    Which i'm sure they would happily burn to the ground if it meant they weren't taxed there. I don't think you want to go with the argument of physical presence. It rarely works well with any multinational.
    - seszett 9y ago
      Well in the meantime these offices do exist, and they also employ people in quite a few EU countries[1]. So that's the reality they have to live with. [1] https://www.facebook.com/careers/locations/ https://www.facebook.com/careers/locations/
    - Oletros 9y ago
      > It rarely works well with any multinational. how many multinationals have left any big market just for taxation?
      - ringtail 9y ago
        Are you saying Singapore Co cannot receive payments from French consumers unless they pay corporate income tax to French Govt ? In other words, you are saying EU can deny its citizens right to buy foreign products ?
        Oletros 9y ago
        No, I'm asking how many multinational have left a big market (one of the biggest in the world) just for taxation.
        ringtail 9y ago
        But what do you mean by "leaving a market" ? MNCs have been doing restructring for decades for reasons ranging from regulations to taxes. If Google do leave EU, all it will do is legal maneuvering. Nothing will change for EU consumers. They can still do Google searches and buy ads. Profit will stay the same.
        Oletros 9y ago
        > But what do you mean by "leaving a market" Pulling off any presence in that market, offices, stores, etc. > If Google do leave EU, all it will do is legal maneuvering. Nothing will change for EU consumers. They can still do Google searches and buy ads. Profit will stay the same. No, because there is all of the burden of a company from outside the EU doing business with EU companies. And not talking about the restriction on data protection. And don't talk about companies like Amazon or Apple with physical goods
- la_oveja 9y ago
  If you're selling something in the EU, you gotta stick to EU laws. It's not about where is the company from, it's about where it's making business. Simple as that.
- tormeh 9y ago
  EU companies pay for advertising there. You know, their customers. They sell to customers in the EU. The social network/search thingy doesn't have any relevance to tax - it's their advertisement business governments want a slice of. If there's any problem with taxation any country can order its banks to not process payments to Google/Facebook. Tax authorities don't give a shit who hosts the citizenry's family photos. That's not what "operating in" a country means.
  - ringtail 9y ago
    Banning 2 corporations is one thing and banning all offshore corporations another. Would citizens go along with this ? Never.
DannyBee 9y ago
This is pretty dangerous thinking. The EU only has half a billion people. Thus, the truth is: Over time, these companies will make infinitely more from developing nations outside of the EU than they would from the EU. especially if the EU is taxing them heavily. Additionally, even if you say "don't care, if they leave we'll just build our own companies", now you are hamstringing the global growth of those companies. (I'm just going to assume the companies that leave are not going to put your homegrown companies and people at a very serious technological disadvantage, which they might) This is of course, why the EU wants everyone on the bus.
- Oletros 9y ago
  > This is pretty dangerous thinking. Dangerous thinking? It was just an answer to a claim about the wealth they create as if they are exempt to be taxed because they create wealth. > Over time, these companies will make infinitely more from developing nations outside of the EU than they would from the EU. Over time, but I bet that any of those companies wouldn't trade the profit of one of the greatest markets in the world now for an hypothetical > especially if the EU is taxing them heavily. EU is not taxing heavily
- k-mcgrady 9y ago
  >> This is pretty dangerous thinking. The EU only has half a billion people. Thus, the truth is: Over time, these companies will make infinitely more from developing nations outside of the EU than they would from the EU. especially if the EU is taxing them heavily. Disagree. Think about advertisers. A lot of products popular in the US are popular in the EU. When it comes to marketing the latest Hollywood blockbuster if they can't reach half a billion people through Facebook they'll go elsewhere. If half a billion people suddenly disappear from Facebook those people who have friends and family there will turn to other communication systems and Facebook may get used less and less.

How do they "exist" in the EU? One way to see it is that people from the EU are simply buying services from a US company. It's as if they caught a plane, and paid at a cash register in California. But instead of making the trip, they just sent a check.

Oletros 9y ago
> One way to see it is that people from the EU are simply buying services from a US company I would like how they do businesses, including Amazon and Apple if they leave the EU because the way you see it is totally wrong. Starting with data protection directives and following with dealing with VAT, and EU customers
seszett 9y ago
> How do they "exist" in the EU? They both have headquarters in Dublin.
- Oletros 9y ago
  And physical presence in almost every EU country
- DVassallo 9y ago
  So if they didn't have a physical presence in the EU, then it would have been fine not to tax them?
- DannyBee 9y ago
  Which i'm sure they would happily burn to the ground if it meant they weren't taxed there. I don't think you want to go with the argument of physical presence. It rarely works well with any multinational.
  - seszett 9y ago
    Well in the meantime these offices do exist, and they also employ people in quite a few EU countries[1]. So that's the reality they have to live with. [1] https://www.facebook.com/careers/locations/ https://www.facebook.com/careers/locations/
  - Oletros 9y ago
    > It rarely works well with any multinational. how many multinationals have left any big market just for taxation?
    - ringtail 9y ago
      Are you saying Singapore Co cannot receive payments from French consumers unless they pay corporate income tax to French Govt ? In other words, you are saying EU can deny its citizens right to buy foreign products ?
      - Oletros 9y ago
        No, I'm asking how many multinational have left a big market (one of the biggest in the world) just for taxation.
        ringtail 9y ago
        But what do you mean by "leaving a market" ? MNCs have been doing restructring for decades for reasons ranging from regulations to taxes. If Google do leave EU, all it will do is legal maneuvering. Nothing will change for EU consumers. They can still do Google searches and buy ads. Profit will stay the same.
        Oletros 9y ago
        > But what do you mean by "leaving a market" Pulling off any presence in that market, offices, stores, etc. > If Google do leave EU, all it will do is legal maneuvering. Nothing will change for EU consumers. They can still do Google searches and buy ads. Profit will stay the same. No, because there is all of the burden of a company from outside the EU doing business with EU companies. And not talking about the restriction on data protection. And don't talk about companies like Amazon or Apple with physical goods
la_oveja 9y ago
If you're selling something in the EU, you gotta stick to EU laws. It's not about where is the company from, it's about where it's making business. Simple as that.
tormeh 9y ago
EU companies pay for advertising there. You know, their customers. They sell to customers in the EU. The social network/search thingy doesn't have any relevance to tax - it's their advertisement business governments want a slice of. If there's any problem with taxation any country can order its banks to not process payments to Google/Facebook. Tax authorities don't give a shit who hosts the citizenry's family photos. That's not what "operating in" a country means.
- ringtail 9y ago
  Banning 2 corporations is one thing and banning all offshore corporations another. Would citizens go along with this ? Never.

DannyBee 9y ago

This is pretty dangerous thinking. The EU only has half a billion people. Thus, the truth is: Over time, these companies will make infinitely more from developing nations outside of the EU than they would from the EU. especially if the EU is taxing them heavily. Additionally, even if you say "don't care, if they leave we'll just build our own companies", now you are hamstringing the global growth of those companies. (I'm just going to assume the companies that leave are not going to put your homegrown companies and people at a very serious technological disadvantage, which they might) This is of course, why the EU wants everyone on the bus.

Oletros 9y ago
> This is pretty dangerous thinking. Dangerous thinking? It was just an answer to a claim about the wealth they create as if they are exempt to be taxed because they create wealth. > Over time, these companies will make infinitely more from developing nations outside of the EU than they would from the EU. Over time, but I bet that any of those companies wouldn't trade the profit of one of the greatest markets in the world now for an hypothetical > especially if the EU is taxing them heavily. EU is not taxing heavily
k-mcgrady 9y ago
>> This is pretty dangerous thinking. The EU only has half a billion people. Thus, the truth is: Over time, these companies will make infinitely more from developing nations outside of the EU than they would from the EU. especially if the EU is taxing them heavily. Disagree. Think about advertisers. A lot of products popular in the US are popular in the EU. When it comes to marketing the latest Hollywood blockbuster if they can't reach half a billion people through Facebook they'll go elsewhere. If half a billion people suddenly disappear from Facebook those people who have friends and family there will turn to other communication systems and Facebook may get used less and less.