8 ms·

That is a very good point. They should be grateful for these multi-nationalistic monopolies. /s

DVassallo 9y ago
Just stating how much taxes are being "avoided" is an imperfect perspective. If, say, it turned out they contributed $100B to the economy, then that $5B wouldn't look that big in that context.
- confounded 9y ago
  I always struggle with this logic. Is your argument that if 100B EUR in Facebook ads were sold (presumably the way in which Facebook 'contribute'), then this 100B was 'created' by Facebook? I imagine other measures would be proxies for Facebook's profits too (e.g. some portion of engineers' salaries to go private landlords). Isn't this reverse-progressive taxation? If Facebook were outraged at paying taxes enough to shut up shop in Europe, wouldn't that 100B (or something like it) still be kicking around, just in different hands?
- latch 9y ago
  I get what you're saying, but I think it's fundamentally wrong for two reasons. First, it is "big" when you consider how that money could be used. Cynicism aside about funding wars and filling walls with cash, it could be used for substantive (read: big) social good Secondly, this is an important market. If they don't want to pay taxes, they have the legal option to not do business in Europe. So while you say "5B is small compared to 100B", I say "5B is a small price to pay for the billions they made."
  - dangsmum 9y ago
    "they have a legal option not todo do business in europe" Do you see any way to do that other than to prevent eu businesses buying ads from google? Because i think that might have a few severe unintented consequences for businesses in the eu, and have exactly zero impact on google.
    - ryan-allen 9y ago
      It'd also open the market to a new competitor when people in the EU (and elsewhere) realised that they can't find local ads on Google.
    - latch 9y ago
      Not sure I understand. You're saying EU business' not allowed to buy ads on Google would have "exactly zero impact on google" ??
      - dangsmum 9y ago
        google would still charge the same to display an ad exactly the same number of people will see google ads exactly the same number of people will click on an ad The only thing that would change is companies outside of the eu will burn through their ad budgets faster. plus a whole (not quite so new) industry would emerge outside the eu bypassing the regulations. such as happened in China.
        lovich 9y ago
        Corporations have a lot of power over countries right now, but does the world you live in ignore everything countries can do to companies who ignore their laws? They can attempt to block everything Google while they build their own local services, ala China. Google is also a US company and while their software might be hard to prevent getting into the EU, they can start leveling sanctions against physical US goods if the US won't do anything to reign Google in. I dont think any of this is likely to happen, but political entities on the scale of the US, China, the EU, etc have options to bend companies to their will
        dangsmum 9y ago
        i think you are confounding corporations as physical, "real" organisations in the real world, and cyberspace, which has no nationality by design and where the old world order is not welcome. The old world order would very much like to believe they have dominion over cyberspace, but they do not and should not.

Just stating how much taxes are being "avoided" is an imperfect perspective. If, say, it turned out they contributed $100B to the economy, then that $5B wouldn't look that big in that context.

confounded 9y ago
I always struggle with this logic. Is your argument that if 100B EUR in Facebook ads were sold (presumably the way in which Facebook 'contribute'), then this 100B was 'created' by Facebook? I imagine other measures would be proxies for Facebook's profits too (e.g. some portion of engineers' salaries to go private landlords). Isn't this reverse-progressive taxation? If Facebook were outraged at paying taxes enough to shut up shop in Europe, wouldn't that 100B (or something like it) still be kicking around, just in different hands?
latch 9y ago
I get what you're saying, but I think it's fundamentally wrong for two reasons. First, it is "big" when you consider how that money could be used. Cynicism aside about funding wars and filling walls with cash, it could be used for substantive (read: big) social good Secondly, this is an important market. If they don't want to pay taxes, they have the legal option to not do business in Europe. So while you say "5B is small compared to 100B", I say "5B is a small price to pay for the billions they made."
- dangsmum 9y ago
  "they have a legal option not todo do business in europe" Do you see any way to do that other than to prevent eu businesses buying ads from google? Because i think that might have a few severe unintented consequences for businesses in the eu, and have exactly zero impact on google.
  - ryan-allen 9y ago
    It'd also open the market to a new competitor when people in the EU (and elsewhere) realised that they can't find local ads on Google.
  - latch 9y ago
    Not sure I understand. You're saying EU business' not allowed to buy ads on Google would have "exactly zero impact on google" ??
    - dangsmum 9y ago
      google would still charge the same to display an ad exactly the same number of people will see google ads exactly the same number of people will click on an ad The only thing that would change is companies outside of the eu will burn through their ad budgets faster. plus a whole (not quite so new) industry would emerge outside the eu bypassing the regulations. such as happened in China.
      - lovich 9y ago
        Corporations have a lot of power over countries right now, but does the world you live in ignore everything countries can do to companies who ignore their laws? They can attempt to block everything Google while they build their own local services, ala China. Google is also a US company and while their software might be hard to prevent getting into the EU, they can start leveling sanctions against physical US goods if the US won't do anything to reign Google in. I dont think any of this is likely to happen, but political entities on the scale of the US, China, the EU, etc have options to bend companies to their will
        dangsmum 9y ago
        i think you are confounding corporations as physical, "real" organisations in the real world, and cyberspace, which has no nationality by design and where the old world order is not welcome. The old world order would very much like to believe they have dominion over cyberspace, but they do not and should not.