4 ms·

More snarky than usual, i don't know why. "why not just" or "just use" kind of comments that you see more in reddit. Even someone recommended an Electron alter

More snarky than usual, i don't know why. "why not just" or "just use" kind of comments that you see more in reddit. Even someone recommended an Electron alternative, on HN! the #1 Electron hater community. Interesting.

seiferteric 9y ago
I don't know, I think some people feel a bit threatened by this move. It could be viewed as a way to subvert the Linux and OSS community. I think people should know there are alternatives.
- thinkxl 9y ago
  > I don't know, I think some people feel a bit threatened by this move. You are right, but as you said, is good to have alternatives. > It could be viewed as a way to subvert the Linux and OSS community. Good, is healthy to have competition.
- 52-6F-62 9y ago
  That's a generally valid concern, but I don't think I can see that ever really happening. It's really just a compatibility space, no? There is a bit of a contrarian culture here, lately. Some skepticism is healthy, but too much is toxic. As a general optimist and hopeful, I like to try and find good where I can without being suckered by hocus or sly marketing. Moving forward and growing outward should be a good thing, shouldn't it?
  - seiferteric 9y ago
    I know what you mean, but you will never see MS contributing to Wine will you? Will we ever see office for linux? Why can't we get a proper POSIX layer for windows (like they used to offer)?
    - 52-6F-62 9y ago
      You've got a good point. I believe personally that there are great people working at MS (because I know one or two... so I'll just take a leap and assume in general) -- so it seems like a problem of reining in the beast. Hell, Gates seems like a generally good person. It's the default nature of a corporation [read: monster] so large to consume as much as it can and become as powerful as it can. Such organizations are structured this way, and bend this way regardless, because of the framework they operate within. I hardly need to say this. MS started making some good ground recently, so maybe with further prodding and pressure, who knows. Everything you suggested sounds like easy wins for them. It's not like it would affect their core consumer base too much.
      - robertlagrant 9y ago
        Yeah I like Gates, much more than Jobs or Ellison, for example. I'm sure he was far from perfect, but he's pumped more money (and convinced others to pump more money) into big causes than probably most others on the planet. Ballmer on the other hand - both an idiot who stopped Microsoft doing much good for ten years, supported a stupid HR manager in her talent-scaring practices, and also helped give MS its bad reputation. Good job mate.
      - hueving 9y ago
        Good people work for Oracle as well, but that doesn't mean oracle isn't a destructive open source participant.
        52-6F-62 9y ago
        Surely it's a similar problem to MS. "Reining in the beast" so to speak. Corporations, any for-profit corporation, are all by their nature (if you can call it that) for the express purpose of making money in their raw functioning. It would take a purposeful, active measure to sway the actions a corporate body would take (or should take). Not saying MS is an innocent party in the slightest.
    - wvenable 9y ago
      > you will never see MS contributing to Wine will you? This is basically asking Microsoft to open source Windows. > Will we ever see office for linux? They already have Office for macOS, Android, and iOS. They also have SQL Server for Linux and .Net core. "Linux" isn't really a viable desktop operating system compared to the other operating systems mentioned. > Why can't we get a proper POSIX layer for windows (like they used to offer)? POSIX is dead. Linux compatibility is far more relevant to modern computing.
neves 9y ago
If you've lost your work and time due to their design decisions, you'd be "snarky".
rodgerd 9y ago
> i don't know why. Post by woman.
rbanffy 9y ago
It's not snark, or feeling threatened. It's just that lots of people (me included) fail to see the point of running Windows at all (unless you are developing for Windows, in which case it's foolish not to). If you want a Linux experience, use Linux. If you want polished applications and a Unix experience, get a Mac. Windows has somewhat polished apps (with very lax UI consistency rules), a convoluted overall experience (ever tried to debug a wireless connection?) and a Unix-like environment (and it had one from the start) both with Cygwin and WSL. IMHO, WSL is Microsoft's attempt to compete with Mac, not Linux, by adding a Unix-like environment to Windows. I already did that with Cygwin, more than a decade ago.
- blauditore 9y ago
  Frankly, I don't understand the unix-like argument. I keep on hearing it from devs, but if your work happens mostly in IDEs and occasionally on the command line with tools like npm or gradle you never get in touch with potential "unix-ness" of your system. The reason why I switched to Linux for work is its focus on power users, e.g. great configurability or well thought-out command line applications, but not because it's close to unix.
  - monsieurbanana 9y ago
    "focus on power users, e.g. great configurability or well thought-out command line applications" Yeah, because it's an UNIX-like.
    - blauditore 9y ago
      I'm not talking about command line languages or tools, but applications building an interface to it, like Terminal. It's much handier and more configurable than the built-in ones in Windows for cmd and PowerShell.
      - leo_santagada 9y ago
        and that is because the whole pseudo terminal system was always there not encumbered by cmd wonkiness. That plus filesystem semantics alone make a unix like system miles ahead of microsoft.
fasquoika 9y ago
> "why not just" or "just use" kind of comments that you see more in reddit Honestly I think this attitude is much more common on HN than reddit

seiferteric 9y ago

I don't know, I think some people feel a bit threatened by this move. It could be viewed as a way to subvert the Linux and OSS community. I think people should know there are alternatives.

thinkxl 9y ago
> I don't know, I think some people feel a bit threatened by this move. You are right, but as you said, is good to have alternatives. > It could be viewed as a way to subvert the Linux and OSS community. Good, is healthy to have competition.
52-6F-62 9y ago
That's a generally valid concern, but I don't think I can see that ever really happening. It's really just a compatibility space, no? There is a bit of a contrarian culture here, lately. Some skepticism is healthy, but too much is toxic. As a general optimist and hopeful, I like to try and find good where I can without being suckered by hocus or sly marketing. Moving forward and growing outward should be a good thing, shouldn't it?
- seiferteric 9y ago
  I know what you mean, but you will never see MS contributing to Wine will you? Will we ever see office for linux? Why can't we get a proper POSIX layer for windows (like they used to offer)?
  - 52-6F-62 9y ago
    You've got a good point. I believe personally that there are great people working at MS (because I know one or two... so I'll just take a leap and assume in general) -- so it seems like a problem of reining in the beast. Hell, Gates seems like a generally good person. It's the default nature of a corporation [read: monster] so large to consume as much as it can and become as powerful as it can. Such organizations are structured this way, and bend this way regardless, because of the framework they operate within. I hardly need to say this. MS started making some good ground recently, so maybe with further prodding and pressure, who knows. Everything you suggested sounds like easy wins for them. It's not like it would affect their core consumer base too much.
    - robertlagrant 9y ago
      Yeah I like Gates, much more than Jobs or Ellison, for example. I'm sure he was far from perfect, but he's pumped more money (and convinced others to pump more money) into big causes than probably most others on the planet. Ballmer on the other hand - both an idiot who stopped Microsoft doing much good for ten years, supported a stupid HR manager in her talent-scaring practices, and also helped give MS its bad reputation. Good job mate.
    - hueving 9y ago
      Good people work for Oracle as well, but that doesn't mean oracle isn't a destructive open source participant.
      - 52-6F-62 9y ago
        Surely it's a similar problem to MS. "Reining in the beast" so to speak. Corporations, any for-profit corporation, are all by their nature (if you can call it that) for the express purpose of making money in their raw functioning. It would take a purposeful, active measure to sway the actions a corporate body would take (or should take). Not saying MS is an innocent party in the slightest.
  - wvenable 9y ago
    > you will never see MS contributing to Wine will you? This is basically asking Microsoft to open source Windows. > Will we ever see office for linux? They already have Office for macOS, Android, and iOS. They also have SQL Server for Linux and .Net core. "Linux" isn't really a viable desktop operating system compared to the other operating systems mentioned. > Why can't we get a proper POSIX layer for windows (like they used to offer)? POSIX is dead. Linux compatibility is far more relevant to modern computing.

neves 9y ago

If you've lost your work and time due to their design decisions, you'd be "snarky".

rodgerd 9y ago

> i don't know why. Post by woman.

rbanffy 9y ago

It's not snark, or feeling threatened. It's just that lots of people (me included) fail to see the point of running Windows at all (unless you are developing for Windows, in which case it's foolish not to). If you want a Linux experience, use Linux. If you want polished applications and a Unix experience, get a Mac. Windows has somewhat polished apps (with very lax UI consistency rules), a convoluted overall experience (ever tried to debug a wireless connection?) and a Unix-like environment (and it had one from the start) both with Cygwin and WSL. IMHO, WSL is Microsoft's attempt to compete with Mac, not Linux, by adding a Unix-like environment to Windows. I already did that with Cygwin, more than a decade ago.

blauditore 9y ago
Frankly, I don't understand the unix-like argument. I keep on hearing it from devs, but if your work happens mostly in IDEs and occasionally on the command line with tools like npm or gradle you never get in touch with potential "unix-ness" of your system. The reason why I switched to Linux for work is its focus on power users, e.g. great configurability or well thought-out command line applications, but not because it's close to unix.
- monsieurbanana 9y ago
  "focus on power users, e.g. great configurability or well thought-out command line applications" Yeah, because it's an UNIX-like.
  - blauditore 9y ago
    I'm not talking about command line languages or tools, but applications building an interface to it, like Terminal. It's much handier and more configurable than the built-in ones in Windows for cmd and PowerShell.
    - leo_santagada 9y ago
      and that is because the whole pseudo terminal system was always there not encumbered by cmd wonkiness. That plus filesystem semantics alone make a unix like system miles ahead of microsoft.

fasquoika 9y ago

> "why not just" or "just use" kind of comments that you see more in reddit Honestly I think this attitude is much more common on HN than reddit