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Ubuntu is based on Debian, tho. I've used Ubuntu in production for years (because that's what companies use), and that hasn't dissuaded me from using Debian on

by yebyen 9y ago

Ubuntu is based on Debian, tho. I've used Ubuntu in production for years (because that's what companies use), and that hasn't dissuaded me from using Debian on desktop, or on my non-critical servers. I've seen enough things that are "fine in sid" but broken in every Ubuntu distro including next, that your argument against Debian does not sound convincing to me. Yeah, things can break in sid, but are you better off using Ubuntu Next? I don't know anyone who would seriously argue this. Nobody develops on or targets Ubuntu Next that I am aware of, unless a release is imminent. Lots of developers pay attention to Debian Sid all the time, because that's where new releases land first (maybe you find them in rawhide first if the developers are RH-focused, I wouldn't know.) Debian Sid actually has the lowest barrier to entry for release managers, the changes just need to successfully make it out of Experimental.

Avshalom 9y ago
I mean I certainly haven't done any sort of side by side testing, I just generally assume the various Debian releases (stable, testing, sid) are--at any given moment--not quite in-sync with whatever Ubuntu is doing with it's releases, and so assume problems are more likely when downloading shit off the Humble Store or whatever. I'm sure they're usually close enough that I'm not going to dispute anecdata though.
- yebyen 9y ago
  No certainly! I never had a drivers issue when I was an Ubuntu user, to be sure (not one that was more solvable on Debian at least) and I have done some Linux games, I agree it was much easier after Ubuntu landed. Hardware makers target Ubuntu and game makers target Ubuntu. Libc differences can give you a real hard time when it comes to running binaries that are not compiled on your target OS. I have definitely seen that! It's no fun and you may not be able to solve it based on strange timing of libc versions with respect to the Debian 2-annually release cycle. Game developers certainly don't care what versions of libc made it into Debian stable or Debian testing these cycles, so you may be out of luck for two cycles in a row and it's no better in Sid. I mean, this is anecdata too. But it's real and if you haven't had this problem, it's because you didn't use Debian, but used Ubuntu instead. I suspect RHEL/CentOS users didn't have this issue either for one reason or another, and Fedora users neither. But it sure is a problem in Debian, if that's what you're into. To clear things up if it sounds like I'm talking in circles, I ran my share of games on Debian and I had definitely hit this type of issue, and ultimately failed to solve it for myself. If I was using closed-source software or intending to play games, you'd get no disagreement from me I'd rather do it on Ubuntu, and that's a fundamental disagreement with Debian policy and any either closed-source or other than rolling release target (eg. one-and-done) game developer or realistically any other code system that needs either kind of g/libc as a specific version of shared library to link to. You may genuinely be onto something here. But in my production systems, I tend to target using 100% open solutions, so I'm not sure I would have ever run into this at dayjob. Farewell!

by yebyen 9y ago

Avshalom 9y ago

I mean I certainly haven't done any sort of side by side testing, I just generally assume the various Debian releases (stable, testing, sid) are--at any given moment--not quite in-sync with whatever Ubuntu is doing with it's releases, and so assume problems are more likely when downloading shit off the Humble Store or whatever. I'm sure they're usually close enough that I'm not going to dispute anecdata though.

yebyen 9y ago
No certainly! I never had a drivers issue when I was an Ubuntu user, to be sure (not one that was more solvable on Debian at least) and I have done some Linux games, I agree it was much easier after Ubuntu landed. Hardware makers target Ubuntu and game makers target Ubuntu. Libc differences can give you a real hard time when it comes to running binaries that are not compiled on your target OS. I have definitely seen that! It's no fun and you may not be able to solve it based on strange timing of libc versions with respect to the Debian 2-annually release cycle. Game developers certainly don't care what versions of libc made it into Debian stable or Debian testing these cycles, so you may be out of luck for two cycles in a row and it's no better in Sid. I mean, this is anecdata too. But it's real and if you haven't had this problem, it's because you didn't use Debian, but used Ubuntu instead. I suspect RHEL/CentOS users didn't have this issue either for one reason or another, and Fedora users neither. But it sure is a problem in Debian, if that's what you're into. To clear things up if it sounds like I'm talking in circles, I ran my share of games on Debian and I had definitely hit this type of issue, and ultimately failed to solve it for myself. If I was using closed-source software or intending to play games, you'd get no disagreement from me I'd rather do it on Ubuntu, and that's a fundamental disagreement with Debian policy and any either closed-source or other than rolling release target (eg. one-and-done) game developer or realistically any other code system that needs either kind of g/libc as a specific version of shared library to link to. You may genuinely be onto something here. But in my production systems, I tend to target using 100% open solutions, so I'm not sure I would have ever run into this at dayjob. Farewell!