5 ms·

Have you heard the theory that racism might be institutionalized?

by glibgil 9y ago

kchoudhu 9y ago
Now that's just crazy talk.
dogruck 9y ago
Have you studied the crack epidemic or have you simply slurped up some recent liberal political journalism?
- glibgil 9y ago
  > studied the crack epidemic Your bias is showing. Crack arrest spree is more accurate. I was politically active while it was happening, so no, this isn't a recent observation. Can I just add how incredibly rude "slurped up some recent liberal political journalism" is? You should be ashamed of the way you talk to strangers on the Internet.
sremani 9y ago
I do not recollect with precision, but there is an article posted on HN few years ago, showing the 80s archives of New York Times, in it NYT was squarely arguing for harsher sentencing and so were African American civic leaders. May be there is racism that is institutional, but the point is most people even those who are against harsher sentences today thought it was a remedy. We will be failing ourselves if we cannot examine that fact and simply hitch and re-assign every "fucked up" decision to racism.
- glibgil 9y ago
  > May be there is racism that is institutional, but the point is most people even those who are against harsher sentences today thought it was a remedy I didn't. I thought it was racist back then. Many black leaders thought it was racist back then too
- rexpop 9y ago
  > May be there is racism that is institutional, but the point is most people even those who are against harsher sentences today thought it was a remedy. That's exactly the irony of institutional racism: it's so rarely _consciously_ racist. It is often "colorblind".
gozur88 9y ago
So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail.
- glibgil 9y ago
  > So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail No, I'm saying that you cannot make an appeal to authority. It is a logical fallacy. Just because some blacks were in favor does not mean it was not racist
  - trentnix 9y ago
    And thus that's the trap that has been set: if you don't follow the recommendations of black leaders, you're a racist. If you follow the recommendations of black leaders, you're a racist. Even a poorly powered AI in 1983 figured out the only way to win is to not play the game.
  - gozur88 9y ago
    If this were a group of white politicians and community leaders seeking tougher sentences for crimes occurring in their neighborhoods, I'm pretty sure we'd be hearing a debate on the merits of the proposal. But because black politicians and community leaders came to the conclusion that tougher sentences for crack dealers are warranted based on their experience it must be because of institutional racism. It's like they've come to a conclusion you don't agree with so you feel free to dismiss their agency. Help me out here, because it's the only way I can read this.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      You keep repeating this argument. Its premise is invalid. It was not in fact black politicians that raised the sentences for crack cocaine in relation to powder cocaine; it was the overwhelmingly white US federal legislature.
      - 9y ago
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Have you heard the theory that racism might be institutionalized?

kchoudhu 9y ago

Now that's just crazy talk.

dogruck 9y ago

Have you studied the crack epidemic or have you simply slurped up some recent liberal political journalism?

glibgil 9y ago
> studied the crack epidemic Your bias is showing. Crack arrest spree is more accurate. I was politically active while it was happening, so no, this isn't a recent observation. Can I just add how incredibly rude "slurped up some recent liberal political journalism" is? You should be ashamed of the way you talk to strangers on the Internet.

sremani 9y ago

I do not recollect with precision, but there is an article posted on HN few years ago, showing the 80s archives of New York Times, in it NYT was squarely arguing for harsher sentencing and so were African American civic leaders. May be there is racism that is institutional, but the point is most people even those who are against harsher sentences today thought it was a remedy. We will be failing ourselves if we cannot examine that fact and simply hitch and re-assign every "fucked up" decision to racism.

glibgil 9y ago
> May be there is racism that is institutional, but the point is most people even those who are against harsher sentences today thought it was a remedy I didn't. I thought it was racist back then. Many black leaders thought it was racist back then too
rexpop 9y ago
> May be there is racism that is institutional, but the point is most people even those who are against harsher sentences today thought it was a remedy. That's exactly the irony of institutional racism: it's so rarely _consciously_ racist. It is often "colorblind".

gozur88 9y ago

So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail.

glibgil 9y ago
> So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail No, I'm saying that you cannot make an appeal to authority. It is a logical fallacy. Just because some blacks were in favor does not mean it was not racist
- trentnix 9y ago
  And thus that's the trap that has been set: if you don't follow the recommendations of black leaders, you're a racist. If you follow the recommendations of black leaders, you're a racist. Even a poorly powered AI in 1983 figured out the only way to win is to not play the game.
- gozur88 9y ago
  If this were a group of white politicians and community leaders seeking tougher sentences for crimes occurring in their neighborhoods, I'm pretty sure we'd be hearing a debate on the merits of the proposal. But because black politicians and community leaders came to the conclusion that tougher sentences for crack dealers are warranted based on their experience it must be because of institutional racism. It's like they've come to a conclusion you don't agree with so you feel free to dismiss their agency. Help me out here, because it's the only way I can read this.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    You keep repeating this argument. Its premise is invalid. It was not in fact black politicians that raised the sentences for crack cocaine in relation to powder cocaine; it was the overwhelmingly white US federal legislature.
    - 9y ago

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