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OP here. An interesting takeaway I had was the importance of community. Does anyone know any non-profits or startups working to increase people's sense of comm
by anythingnonidin 9y ago
OP here.
An interesting takeaway I had was the importance of community. Does anyone know any non-profits or startups working to increase people's sense of community at a mass scale? It seems this is missing from large parts of the western world and has many consequences.
- CodeCube 9y agothe cynical amongst us would respond that this need is being "filled" by FB and social media ... I for one hope that doesn't turn out to be true in the long term.
- hasenj 9y agoThis need is actually being exacerbated by the likes of FB.
- emodendroket 9y agoFacebook can definitely be a complement to real-life associations; I've used it to find some real-life events.
- saint_fiasco 9y agoUsing social media to fill the need of community is like using heroin to fill the need of happiness. It provides a pale facsimile of the real thing at a terrible price.
- emodendroket 9y agoI see people claiming this all the time (or even that somehow Reddit is the new version of it), but it's just not right... it's not the same kind of community at all.
- DougN7 9y ago> any non-profits ... working to increase people's sense of community at a mass scale You're describing most religions that I'm aware of. Say what you will about their beliefs, but most of them (definitely not all) work hard to have an inclusive and supportive community.
- hasenj 9y ago> work hard to have an inclusive and supportive community. With the condition that you abide by the rules. It's the assurance that everyone adheres to more-or-less the same values that glues the community together. Also, if I may venture slightly off-topic, the modern western definition of "inclusive" seems to imply "without requiring people to adhere to anything", which is the opposite of what you need to build a community. No shared set of values ("do whatever you want" does not really count as a value) means less trust and more suspicion. Simplest example: group A values sexual restraint and have a philosophical framework that justifies why this value is necessary for the preservation of society, group B values sexual freedom and is dismissive of the philosophical framework of group A. Members of group A will be extremely weary of members of group B, and will be concerned about how they might start influencing their children, for example. So they will avoid them. Vice versa, members of group B will be suspicious of group A members, because when you see people being suspicious and avoidant towards you, you tend to become suspicious of them as well.
- slv77 9y ago> With the condition that you abide by the rules. The rules are generally in place to protect the community from sociopaths and serve as the communities immune system.
- astura 9y agoWhat!? Religious rules are not "to protect the community from sociopaths." For example, eating pork is not sociopathic behavior and yet a large part of the world's religions forbid pork eating. People who have problems with the religious community usually are for their arbitrary rules rather than they'd much rather be sociopaths. (I'd make the argument they aren't particularly good about keeping sociopaths out anyways but that's another topic)
- saint_fiasco 9y agoBy making adherence to arbitrary rules a pain in the ass, they discourage people with insincere motivations from hanging out with them. Only a very dedicated sociopath would follow all those rules just to fit in and earn their trust. This isn't failproof of course. Sociopathic cult leaders are very dedicated.
- otakucode 9y agoIt reminds me of things Mother Teresa (who was at times a horrendous person, her Nobel acceptance speech is pretty disturbing and cruel) said about American/western society. She remarked that although a person in India might be radically more poor, even if they were starving in the street, they knew people would reach out to them and cared for them. In America, no matter how rich you are, you feel far more alone than that.
- gedy 9y ago> (who was at times a horrendous person, her Nobel acceptance speech is pretty disturbing and cruel) Wait what? Because she brought up abortion? https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1979/teresa-acceptance_en.html https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1979...
- emodendroket 9y agoI don't know about the speech particularly, but I think Catholic notions about poverty and suffering bringing people closer to Christ rub some people the wrong way. At least that seems to be a lot of the motivation behind "Mother Teresa was awful" stuff I see.
- hourislate 9y agoMother Teresa didn't know much about America. She failed to realize that money might not buy happiness but it sure buys the kind of misery we all like.
- TACIXAT 9y agoI don't think I've ever seen someone starving in the street in the US. I totally disagree with the sentiment that Americans wouldn't help each other. There is a lack of community here and that would be a nice problem to solve, but we aren't heartless.
- wu_tang_chris 9y agoYour comment reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg
- anythingnonidin 9y agoThanks
- AndrewOMartin 9y agoI've seen a couple of documentaries where KKK members were interviewed and the sense of purpose and community seemed to be the main thing they were all getting out of it. I'm not saying the KKK is a good community group, but I will say there are a lot of people with less community than they offer.
- anythingnonidin 9y agoExtremely interesting. Don't suppose you have a link?
- KGIII 9y agoEven better, visit voat.co and read for a few weeks. The white nationalists are all about family, community, and a collective. Well, a specifically white collective. It's very important to them and a frequent topic. Of course, this means reading their posts which is not for the faint of heart. It's like most of them are missing something and are trying to find something to belong to. In a way, I feel more sorrow than anger towards them.
- AndrewOMartin 9y agoSee my response to nothingnonidin. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15244420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15244420
- anythingnonidin 9y agoThanks
- anythingnonidin 9y agoWas it http://www.npr.org/2017/08/13/543259499/a-reformed-white-nationalist-speaks-out-on-charlottesville http://www.npr.org/2017/08/13/543259499/a-reformed-white-nat... or something else?
- AndrewOMartin 9y ago
- pjc50 9y ago> non-profits or startups working to increase people's sense of community This is non-profit territory, absolutely not startup territory. You can only build a classic VC-funded startup by promising that eventually you're going to extract value (usually monopoly profits!) from the community. "Sense of community" is one of those things that's traditionally ranked well below profits and been destroyed in the search for profit.
- Bartweiss 9y agoCynically: 'sense of community' gets destroyed in the search for profit when you're profiting from something else. If you're getting your profits from the community, you'll build it up just fine. Not necessarily in a healthy way, but at least in a persistent one. Hell, I think you could convincingly argue that opening a new pub counts as founding a startup aimed at increasing people's sense of community. It doesn't have the unlimited scale of a tech startup, but it is a company that profits from offering a 'third place'. For that matter, plenty of churches have been run more like businesses than non-profits while still creating strong communities. As long as the sense of community is profitable, it might do well with startups. That just hasn't been a common state of affairs lately.
- closeparen 9y agoA pub is a small business. A startup is distinct from a small business in that it seeks outsized returns through economies of scale, efficiency, etc. The funding model and the set of behaviors which are adaptive for founding or working in these kinds of businesses don't have much in common. Much of the loss of community in America is small businesses getting destroyed in the market by successful startups (i.e. large corporations).
- emodendroket 9y agoUh, well, maybe not a popular answer here, but that is one thing churches are really good at.
- terminado 9y agoWith churches, there are a few problems that are intellectually repellent, meaning they won't solve for certain personality types. Namely: 1. artificial social heirarchy 2. magical thinking 3. group think 4. rules without reason Part of religion is often about imposing order on the irrational aspects of experience and reality, but there's a lot of centuries-old cruft and inertia behind the ones that exist. When you take apart any given religion, and inspect individual parts, and place those parts within the context of a small, insular village, dispossessed of plumbing, medicine or indoor heating, any single part starts to make sense. But many are far, far away from that, and need not invest in superstition. Morality is great, but in some cases morality without purpose translates to overbearing fear imposed with motive. Mythology and folklore are good for illustrating practical principles and relationships between ideas, but some people refuse to consider whether the ant and the grasshopper never actually happened. All this taken together, often tips the scales toward cognitive dissonance for some who think too deeply about bald facts. I don't have a solution to fix this, but I've seen what happens when smart people try to reimagine a modern religion that might fit current scenarios, and it's usually equally terrible. Someone will eventually figure this modern community rationale problem out, but it's not something you can just fake or make up for its own sake. It's something that needs to (seem to) happen organically, on its own, and remain authentic. Sounds pretty difficult if you ask me.
- snark42 9y ago> With churches, there are a few problems that are intellectually repellent, meaning they won't solve for certain personality types. Unitarian Universalist churches are good for community and avoid most of these negatives in my experience.
- emodendroket 9y agoYeah, that seems to be a popular choice for lapsed religious people.
- marojejian 9y agoShameless plug: I've been working on a service (www.campfire.care) to build peer support groups for any focus. Groups of 5-10 people with the same issue meet regularly via video and stay connected via chat. The idea is that we are fundamentally social creatures, and struggling with a challenge alone is unhealthy. Campfire is not therapy or a replacement for therapy. But peer support can be powerful + inexpensive. And being part of a true peer group can provide a kind of value that professional mental health can't. You can't be friends with you therapist, and their job is not to truly empathize with you. Would love any thoughts / feedback!
- anythingnonidin 9y agoWonderful! What's the main challenge for you as it relates to the product? i.e. are you limited on needing more customers / stronger product market fit, do you have insane product market fit and limited on hiring, etc? Is this a for profit thing?
- marojejian 9y agoThanks! Generally, I think the challenge for us is going to be the same as for many other consumer-ish mental health startups. The experience is really effective, but most people aren't looking for this specific approach to solve their problem. So building awareness is super valuable. Our main goal is to help as many people as cost-effectively as we can. After thinking a lot about it, I think there's more evidence we can scale better as a for profit.
- flatfilefan 9y agoDid you consider appointing (renting out) a community lead for those groups? Maybe something along the lines of Über driver system? If a group has a natural leader - perfect. If not they can "rent" one to keep the momentum of the group going.
- marojejian 9y agoYes - we've been trying a variety of different backgrounds for our "hosts." The most exciting approach is to level up our members to lead groups with their challenge. They truly empathize and care about the group, which can make them more effective than a whole bunch of training. Plus, it reinforces that this is not a case where you are being treated for a mental health problem. This is a tight-knit community helping each other.