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> I mean, I don't like Trump either. But he's a very long way from a Nazi. He's not what we retroactively think of as a Nazi; but he's not very far from an ear

by csours 9y ago

> I mean, I don't like Trump either. But he's a very long way from a Nazi. He's not what we retroactively think of as a Nazi; but he's not very far from an early 1930's Nazi.

enraged_camel 9y ago
Exactly. People who say "Trump is not a Nazi" simply don't know the history of 1930s Germany and how Nazis actually went from a fringe movement to the major party in power. Back then the German middle class, who were similarly sheltered in their own bubbles and concerned with their own mundane troubles, also watched from the sidelines and engaged in whataboutism and pointed fingers at anti-fascists who violently opposed Nazis. This only served to empower the Nazis though and we all know how things ended up.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Or, the alternative is that some people have also extensively studied history and see no important parallels.
  - katastic 9y ago
    Don't you love how people here seem to parrot whatever cliche talking points that come from the standard left reading magazine stand? Salon, Huffington Post, Mother Jones (dear god), MSNBC and CNN. They'll do a PR blitz with no supporting evidence and then for the next few weeks you'll hear the same phrase and comparisons over and over as if these people coincidentally all came to these conclusions on their own. Remember a few weeks ago when you couldn't go one post without hearing "No moral equivalency between ANTIFA and neo-nazis." It hit the news. Then it hit the social media battleground as people basically parroted back what a couple of rich elites thought would be a good talking point for the sheeples. And then ANTIFA beats the shit out of a white guy while a black journalist covers him to protect him and all a sudden the PR machine changes and decides to stop defending them. ... And now nobody is parroting the "no moral equivalency" cliche. What happened? If the logic was sound and truly generated by unique individuals, why did it magically stop? Why would a chorus of people with the same argument stop thinking something they portrayed as a core, sound belief?! Oh wait, we all know the answer. People aren't unique. People aren't smart. And people are just using logic they borrowed from someone else, to smugly "win" arguments. An easy way to tell people who have no actual depth understanding in their arguments is to simply ask them questions. The more you probe, the more you'll realize they don't have any fundamental understanding. They're the liberal equivalent of someone yelling bible verses at policy debates. "But God said X!" "But what did he mean in the surrounding verses?" ".. uhh.. uhm.. But God said X!"
    - anigbrowl 9y ago
      You're engaging in a whole lot of assuming your conclusion, there. I have never thought there was any moral equivalency between anti-fascists and fascists, and my view on that has not altered substantially. You can easily confirm this via my comment history, which barely (if at all) refers to the 'standard left reading magazine stand' of your imagination. I'm not alone in this outlook.
    - csours 9y ago
      > An easy way to tell people who have no actual depth understanding in their arguments is to simply ask them questions. The more you probe, the more you'll realize they don't have any fundamental understanding. Or they are repeating something simple at high volume. It's also how you can tell they care deeply. Most people don't deeply question why feel a certain way, don't research the history of this or that movement, pursue alternatives, or display empathy towards those on the other side(s). This is true for people on both sides, generally speaking. I don't believe that ANTIFA and neo-nazis are morally equivalent, though. ANTIFA are protesting on behalf of the rights of others, and neo-nazis are protesting to limit the rights of others. I don't think either group should use violence, but I understand that ANTIFA has little or no faith in the current government, and thus they feel the need for a show of force. Again, I don't think that actual violence is a good idea, and even the show of force is probably an unnecessary escalation.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]

by csours 9y ago

> I mean, I don't like Trump either. But he's a very long way from a Nazi. He's not what we retroactively think of as a Nazi; but he's not very far from an early 1930's Nazi.

enraged_camel 9y ago

Exactly. People who say "Trump is not a Nazi" simply don't know the history of 1930s Germany and how Nazis actually went from a fringe movement to the major party in power. Back then the German middle class, who were similarly sheltered in their own bubbles and concerned with their own mundane troubles, also watched from the sidelines and engaged in whataboutism and pointed fingers at anti-fascists who violently opposed Nazis. This only served to empower the Nazis though and we all know how things ended up.

oh_sigh 9y ago
Or, the alternative is that some people have also extensively studied history and see no important parallels.
- katastic 9y ago
  Don't you love how people here seem to parrot whatever cliche talking points that come from the standard left reading magazine stand? Salon, Huffington Post, Mother Jones (dear god), MSNBC and CNN. They'll do a PR blitz with no supporting evidence and then for the next few weeks you'll hear the same phrase and comparisons over and over as if these people coincidentally all came to these conclusions on their own. Remember a few weeks ago when you couldn't go one post without hearing "No moral equivalency between ANTIFA and neo-nazis." It hit the news. Then it hit the social media battleground as people basically parroted back what a couple of rich elites thought would be a good talking point for the sheeples. And then ANTIFA beats the shit out of a white guy while a black journalist covers him to protect him and all a sudden the PR machine changes and decides to stop defending them. ... And now nobody is parroting the "no moral equivalency" cliche. What happened? If the logic was sound and truly generated by unique individuals, why did it magically stop? Why would a chorus of people with the same argument stop thinking something they portrayed as a core, sound belief?! Oh wait, we all know the answer. People aren't unique. People aren't smart. And people are just using logic they borrowed from someone else, to smugly "win" arguments. An easy way to tell people who have no actual depth understanding in their arguments is to simply ask them questions. The more you probe, the more you'll realize they don't have any fundamental understanding. They're the liberal equivalent of someone yelling bible verses at policy debates. "But God said X!" "But what did he mean in the surrounding verses?" ".. uhh.. uhm.. But God said X!"
  - anigbrowl 9y ago
    You're engaging in a whole lot of assuming your conclusion, there. I have never thought there was any moral equivalency between anti-fascists and fascists, and my view on that has not altered substantially. You can easily confirm this via my comment history, which barely (if at all) refers to the 'standard left reading magazine stand' of your imagination. I'm not alone in this outlook.
  - csours 9y ago
    > An easy way to tell people who have no actual depth understanding in their arguments is to simply ask them questions. The more you probe, the more you'll realize they don't have any fundamental understanding. Or they are repeating something simple at high volume. It's also how you can tell they care deeply. Most people don't deeply question why feel a certain way, don't research the history of this or that movement, pursue alternatives, or display empathy towards those on the other side(s). This is true for people on both sides, generally speaking. I don't believe that ANTIFA and neo-nazis are morally equivalent, though. ANTIFA are protesting on behalf of the rights of others, and neo-nazis are protesting to limit the rights of others. I don't think either group should use violence, but I understand that ANTIFA has little or no faith in the current government, and thus they feel the need for a show of force. Again, I don't think that actual violence is a good idea, and even the show of force is probably an unnecessary escalation.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]