6 ms·

US has been supporting the Kurds longer than trump's term in office

by notfromhere 9y ago

baursak 9y ago
Not sure what you mean by "Kurds". Why is PKK still a designated terrorist group?
- megous 9y ago
  Obviously some Kurds in north-east of Syria. I'm not sure there's any support of Kurds on the Turkey side, where Kurdish cities are being razed to the ground last several years. It's not even in the news that much compared to the other stuff from the region. Yet there is million or more of internally displaced people by this violence.
- frandroid 9y ago
  Because NATO.
richardknop 9y ago
The level of support is what's important. Under previous administration the support was on a very low side and much more support was thrown behind sunni states (Turkey for example) and extremist sunni militias. This has changed under Trump and it seems like the support will be shifted away from extremist sunni militias and towards Kurds. I have to give Trump credit for this.
mentalpiracy 9y ago
We have been supporting the Kurds, yes - but our support is schizophrenic at best. Though the Kurds are almost everything the US could want in a mideast ally - moderate, self-sustaining and stable, demonstrably capable - we will probably never embrace them fully due to our relationship with Turkey. Some backstory: Turkey lists the PKK as a terrorist organization, as Ankara and PKK have been fighting a separatist conflict for decades. Though the PKK has never targeted Americans, the US still lists the PKK as a terror org to placate Ankara. The US has invested in Turkey as a strategic regional ally since the Cold War. Geographically Turkey was a key bulwark against Soviet power, and indeed we housed nuclear missiles within Turkish territory for many years. Even after the USSR collapsed, Turkey's regional value to the United States has grown. Incirlik is one of the largest air bases in the world, and remains a key logistical point for our military action in Afghanistan and Iraq. Turkey was also important to the US ideologically because they were a stable, moderate, secular Muslim state, e.g. the kind of country we wanted to serve as a template for the rest of the Middle East. Thanks to Erdogan, this value has decreased sharply thanks to his moves to consolidate autocratic power at the expense of the still largely secular and moderate Turkish populace. (Tried to keep the value judgements out of that, sorry if I offended someone by summarizing too generally).
- mengibar10 9y ago
  PKK is a terrorist organization because they have been killing civilians. Especially indiscriminate killings through bombings market places, public meetings. Most of the time their victims have been Kurdish people. A terrorist is a terrorist only when Americans are targeted?
  - baursak 9y ago
    Do you mind posting links from reputable sources (i.e. not blatant Turkish government propaganda)?
    - mengibar10 9y ago
      http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-blast/kurdish-militants-claim-responsibility-for-istanbul-attack-that-killed-38-idUSKBN14007C http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-blast/kurdish-milit... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/10/bomb-outside-istanbul-football-stadium-causes-multiple-casualties https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/10/bomb-outside-i... http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/explosions-reported-turkey-istanbul-161210193908896.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/explosions-reported-tu...
      - baursak 9y ago
        All three news stories describe the same event -- Dec 2016 stadium attack by TAK, which is not PKK. TAK broke out of PKK as a new separate group because of PKK's willingness to compromise with Turkey. So again, can you substantiate your claim that modern PKK is a terrorist organization?
  - mentalpiracy 9y ago
    For the purposes of US foreign policy, apparently yes. Terrorists kill Americans, and the US won't deal with terrorists. But if you don't kill Americans... well, then the US can label you separatists or independents or some other creative euphemism. If you're useful to them. Cynical take, and I certainly don't agree with it myself, but nonetheless that's how it works.

US has been supporting the Kurds longer than trump's term in office

baursak 9y ago

Not sure what you mean by "Kurds". Why is PKK still a designated terrorist group?

megous 9y ago
Obviously some Kurds in north-east of Syria. I'm not sure there's any support of Kurds on the Turkey side, where Kurdish cities are being razed to the ground last several years. It's not even in the news that much compared to the other stuff from the region. Yet there is million or more of internally displaced people by this violence.
frandroid 9y ago
Because NATO.

richardknop 9y ago

The level of support is what's important. Under previous administration the support was on a very low side and much more support was thrown behind sunni states (Turkey for example) and extremist sunni militias. This has changed under Trump and it seems like the support will be shifted away from extremist sunni militias and towards Kurds. I have to give Trump credit for this.

mentalpiracy 9y ago

We have been supporting the Kurds, yes - but our support is schizophrenic at best. Though the Kurds are almost everything the US could want in a mideast ally - moderate, self-sustaining and stable, demonstrably capable - we will probably never embrace them fully due to our relationship with Turkey. Some backstory: Turkey lists the PKK as a terrorist organization, as Ankara and PKK have been fighting a separatist conflict for decades. Though the PKK has never targeted Americans, the US still lists the PKK as a terror org to placate Ankara. The US has invested in Turkey as a strategic regional ally since the Cold War. Geographically Turkey was a key bulwark against Soviet power, and indeed we housed nuclear missiles within Turkish territory for many years. Even after the USSR collapsed, Turkey's regional value to the United States has grown. Incirlik is one of the largest air bases in the world, and remains a key logistical point for our military action in Afghanistan and Iraq. Turkey was also important to the US ideologically because they were a stable, moderate, secular Muslim state, e.g. the kind of country we wanted to serve as a template for the rest of the Middle East. Thanks to Erdogan, this value has decreased sharply thanks to his moves to consolidate autocratic power at the expense of the still largely secular and moderate Turkish populace. (Tried to keep the value judgements out of that, sorry if I offended someone by summarizing too generally).

mengibar10 9y ago
PKK is a terrorist organization because they have been killing civilians. Especially indiscriminate killings through bombings market places, public meetings. Most of the time their victims have been Kurdish people. A terrorist is a terrorist only when Americans are targeted?
- baursak 9y ago
  Do you mind posting links from reputable sources (i.e. not blatant Turkish government propaganda)?
  - mengibar10 9y ago
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-blast/kurdish-militants-claim-responsibility-for-istanbul-attack-that-killed-38-idUSKBN14007C http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-blast/kurdish-milit... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/10/bomb-outside-istanbul-football-stadium-causes-multiple-casualties https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/10/bomb-outside-i... http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/explosions-reported-turkey-istanbul-161210193908896.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/explosions-reported-tu...
    - baursak 9y ago
      All three news stories describe the same event -- Dec 2016 stadium attack by TAK, which is not PKK. TAK broke out of PKK as a new separate group because of PKK's willingness to compromise with Turkey. So again, can you substantiate your claim that modern PKK is a terrorist organization?
- mentalpiracy 9y ago
  For the purposes of US foreign policy, apparently yes. Terrorists kill Americans, and the US won't deal with terrorists. But if you don't kill Americans... well, then the US can label you separatists or independents or some other creative euphemism. If you're useful to them. Cynical take, and I certainly don't agree with it myself, but nonetheless that's how it works.