5 ms·

And not having weapons makes it more likely you will be attacked and killed for your provisions if the shit hits the fan. In other words, armed or not, violence

And not having weapons makes it more likely you will be attacked and killed for your provisions if the shit hits the fan. In other words, armed or not, violence is a given when it gets bad enough that people are scavenging for food. When it's so bad the police and military aren't there to protect you, you either roll over and die, or fight and possibly live another day. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that we don't live in a perfect world with everyone following the rules even in the best of times. I would love it if your ideal world where we all trust each other existed; it would be true paradise. But, we're only human and even the very best of us are flawed creatures.

legulere 9y ago
> And not having weapons makes it more likely you will be attacked and killed for your provisions if the shit hits the fan. These violence fantasies are repeated on and on in prepper communities, but that does not make them more true. Violence may increase, but mostly people come together to help each other.
- theseatoms 9y ago
  Prepping is about being prepared for either scenario, or anything in between.
  - hwillis 9y ago
    thats tautological and/or no true scotsman, and doesn't directly address his claim
    - nitrogen 9y ago
      There's no claim to address; history has shown both outcomes can happen.
- blhack 9y ago
  So if people come together and help each other, you won't need the weapons. Engineers seem to understand making backups and hoping you never need them, why is this different? You have the means to protect yourself, and pray that you'll never have to use it. (I am not a gun owner, by the way. This just seems perplexing)
- ethbro 9y ago
  I'd be curious about historical examples. My gut is that people come together and help each other for short-term disasters or where hope of help arriving is widespread (e.g. National Guard being mobilized, local disruption in a still functioning country). Past ~week, or shorter if there's no hope for things being fixed, people reasonably revert to survival.
- toss1 9y ago
  "Fantasy"? Not even close. We hope it stays far away, but when a highly technological society breaks down, it can happen very fast. Just read about Sarajevo, went from thriving metropolis to desperate in a matter of days, in a matter of 2-3 months, people were dying of starvation. Gangs ruled, and you had to be organized and armed to survive. Venezuela is descending into that state now, even with recently imposed gun confiscation. (and those are just political disasters) I write this without having made any particular preparations, as increasing instability has not yet crossed my threshold of probability. But to think that it is a mere "fantasy" that things could get bad enough to need stockpiles and weapons is itself the fantasy. Just read a bit of history, and/or do a bit or research into how fast things will run out --critical things-- when our Just-In-Time economy no longer delivers everything in time. [[edit: add parenthetical on political disasters]]
- morganvachon 9y ago
  Not a violent fantasy at all. I grew up poor and I know what it means to choose between losing the family car or eating that week. I'm a pacifist; I have been in three fights in my life, all started by someone else, all ended with me protecting my body but not fighting back, and all in 9th grade or lower. As an adult I've chosen to live a life of peace and maintain an attitude of tolerance. But I'm also a realist. I may not like it, hell I hate it, but I'm going to protect my family and my provisions if I'm ever thrust into such a situation. That said, it's my sincere desire to live the rest of my life without ever harming a fellow human.
- defined 9y ago
  Having just lived through Hurricane Irma and received texted warnings of people ringing doorbells just after the storm, and then robbing homes, just a mile from me, I ask, who is living in a fantasy world?

legulere 9y ago

> And not having weapons makes it more likely you will be attacked and killed for your provisions if the shit hits the fan. These violence fantasies are repeated on and on in prepper communities, but that does not make them more true. Violence may increase, but mostly people come together to help each other.

theseatoms 9y ago
Prepping is about being prepared for either scenario, or anything in between.
- hwillis 9y ago
  thats tautological and/or no true scotsman, and doesn't directly address his claim
  - nitrogen 9y ago
    There's no claim to address; history has shown both outcomes can happen.
blhack 9y ago
So if people come together and help each other, you won't need the weapons. Engineers seem to understand making backups and hoping you never need them, why is this different? You have the means to protect yourself, and pray that you'll never have to use it. (I am not a gun owner, by the way. This just seems perplexing)
ethbro 9y ago
I'd be curious about historical examples. My gut is that people come together and help each other for short-term disasters or where hope of help arriving is widespread (e.g. National Guard being mobilized, local disruption in a still functioning country). Past ~week, or shorter if there's no hope for things being fixed, people reasonably revert to survival.
toss1 9y ago
"Fantasy"? Not even close. We hope it stays far away, but when a highly technological society breaks down, it can happen very fast. Just read about Sarajevo, went from thriving metropolis to desperate in a matter of days, in a matter of 2-3 months, people were dying of starvation. Gangs ruled, and you had to be organized and armed to survive. Venezuela is descending into that state now, even with recently imposed gun confiscation. (and those are just political disasters) I write this without having made any particular preparations, as increasing instability has not yet crossed my threshold of probability. But to think that it is a mere "fantasy" that things could get bad enough to need stockpiles and weapons is itself the fantasy. Just read a bit of history, and/or do a bit or research into how fast things will run out --critical things-- when our Just-In-Time economy no longer delivers everything in time. [[edit: add parenthetical on political disasters]]
morganvachon 9y ago
Not a violent fantasy at all. I grew up poor and I know what it means to choose between losing the family car or eating that week. I'm a pacifist; I have been in three fights in my life, all started by someone else, all ended with me protecting my body but not fighting back, and all in 9th grade or lower. As an adult I've chosen to live a life of peace and maintain an attitude of tolerance. But I'm also a realist. I may not like it, hell I hate it, but I'm going to protect my family and my provisions if I'm ever thrust into such a situation. That said, it's my sincere desire to live the rest of my life without ever harming a fellow human.
defined 9y ago
Having just lived through Hurricane Irma and received texted warnings of people ringing doorbells just after the storm, and then robbing homes, just a mile from me, I ask, who is living in a fantasy world?