7 ms·

The better link is the whole project page: https://www.occrp.org/en/makingakilling/ https://www.occrp.org/en/makingakilling/ >Since the outbreak of war in Syr

by r721 9y ago

The better link is the whole project page: https://www.occrp.org/en/makingakilling/ https://www.occrp.org/en/makingakilling/ >Since the outbreak of war in Syria, weapons from Central and Eastern Europe have flooded the conflict zone through two distinct pipelines – one sponsored by Saudi Arabia and coordinated by the CIA, and the other funded and directed by the Pentagon. >A series of investigations by the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network (BIRN) and the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) have brought to light these multi-billion-dollar weapons deliveries -- exposing the misleading and potentially illegal documents on which they rely, the shady dealers at its heart of the trade, and the governments that have profited from the war.

skrebbel 9y ago
Anyone got a tl;dr about the motive behind all this? What does the US government gain by flooding the middle East with weapons?
- stefantalpalaru 9y ago
  > What does the US government gain by flooding the middle East with weapons? A bigger market: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex
- misja111 9y ago
  The war in Syria is a proxy for a battle between two countries: Iran on the one side, which supports Assad's regime, and Saudi Arabia on the other side, which supports the Sunnite rebel groups ISIS and Al Qaida. Saudi Arabia is an ally of the US and Iran an enemy, so therefore the US supports the rebel groups that fight Assad's regime. What's more, US's close ally Israel is right at the border of Syria and Israel is a long time enemy of Iran as well.
  - Quarrelsome 9y ago
    Assad is also Russia, that's a pretty big deal. Its worth noting how this conflict also draws in people linked to Hamas and Hezbollah. Its suspected that part of ISIS's emergence was due to Turkey as they expanded towards the Kurds (a key demographic that Turkey is keen on subduing) so it really is a clusterfuck before we even start to consider US/Russian involvement.
    - travmatt 9y ago
      Syria is also home to a large Russian airbase and contains strategically/economically important warm water ports - Syria is a very valuable Russian ally, probably why the prospect destroying that relationship is so enticing.
- vermontdevil 9y ago
  Proxy war against Russia and Iran.
- mfukar 9y ago
  The answers to the question "what is there to gain?" are fairly obvious, don't you think?
  - skrebbel 9y ago
    No, otherwise I wouldn't ask.
- banned1 9y ago
  Funds?
- phyller 9y ago
  The article says they are theoretically only arming groups that are fighting against ISIS. I'm pretty sure if they can defeat them on the ground without committing American troops (airstrikes can only do so much) and only spending $1 billion dollars they are going to consider that a big win. The sentiment of this question explains why even further. ISIS does very bad stuff and is a major problem, and we can all wonder why the west doesn't do more to stop them because they clearly have the ability to do so. But then the moment the US gets really involved, everyone is going to shift blame to them for everything. I don't condone secretive actions like this myself, but considering the US's global influence and capability, if they weren't doing something about ISIS the question could easily be restated "What does the US government gain by allowing extremists to rape and pillage the middle east?"
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    "only arming groups that are fighting against ISIS" Yeah, a lot of "moderate rebels" (that are slightly less theocratic than ISIS)
    - phyller 9y ago
      Yea. I think every employee of a 3 letter agency should be required to write a scholarly paper on the term "blowback" and have it peer reviewed before they get to spend any money.
    - tboyd47 9y ago
      Unfortunately, the US military has transferred the Cold War strategy of "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" to radical pseudo-Islamic militant groups. That's not going to work so well because you might have two groups that have exactly the same beliefs except they gave allegiance to a different imam so they consider each other to be kuffar.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    The US already has troops on the ground, at least a few members of the special forces are working with the SDF/YPG on the front lines.
- cfv 9y ago
  Shitting on Russia's projection of power?
- travmatt 9y ago
  Broadly, America has traditionally supported Sunni leaning states, most notably Saudi Arabia. Russia has traditionally supported Shia Iran, and both the powers are competing for influence within the region. In the course of the Arab Spring, the legitimacy of many ME leaders/dictators was questioned, among the most notable of these was the rule of Bashar al-Assad of Syria. A popular local outpouring of resentment against his regime was coopted and inflamed by hardline Sunni extremists, many of these being veterans of the Iraq War or younger generations of recuits. This escalated into a full civil war, which quickly turned into a proxy battle for control over Syria, which heretofore had been a Russian proxy state, with a large air base. While the United States has been arming anti-Assad (who also are notably anti-American) forces, Russia has been targeting civilian population centers (with both conventional and chemical weapons) to first create then inflame the Syrian refugee crisis, driving political instability first throughout Turkey then the EU - both sides seeking to ratchet up the pressure on terms favorable to them. The tl;dr is a civil war turned proxy war is creating some of the most acute human suffering present in our world today.
  - liopleurodon 9y ago
    "Russia has been targeting civilian population centers (with both conventional and chemical weapons)" citation needed
    - tudorw 9y ago
      http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/27/499578650/dozens-dead-in-what-unicef-calls-one-of-the-worst-school-bombings-in-syrias-war http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/27/499578650/... "This year, UNICEF "said it has verified at least 38 attacks on schools around Syria, whether in government-held areas or rebel-controlled territory. Before Wednesday's attack, 32 children were killed in 2016 in attacks on schools," as the group's regional chief of communication, Juliette Touma, told The Associated Press. "A total of 60 attacks were recorded on schools in 2015," she told the AP, adding that 1 in 3 schools in the country have been rendered unusable by the conflict." "At least 96 children have been killed and 223 injured in eastern Aleppo in the past week, UNICEF said Thursday, with some left to die on the floor of hospitals due to lack of medical supplies. Syrian and Russian forces have been bombarding rebel-held areas of the city for five straight days in what has been described as the most intense bombing campaign to hit the city since the war in Syria started six years ago." https://news.vice.com/article/un-slams-russia-syria-for-killing-children-in-aleppo https://news.vice.com/article/un-slams-russia-syria-for-kill...
- notfromhere 9y ago
  It's western policy to prevent any unified arab state to emerge from the middle east. ...not that the middle east needs the help dividing itself, but a pan-arab superstate would probably be bad news bears for the Med region
- X86BSD 9y ago
  This is the reason Syria was destabilized by the US. Natural gas to Europe. Period. This is not about Assad, the US is simply demonizing him to justify their destruction of another secular soverign country. Russia supplies Europe with almost all of its natural gas. This is unacceptable to the west. What the west wants is to drag nat gas up from Qatar through Syria to the med and north into Europe breaking Russia's strangle hold on their nat gas. The problem? Assad wouldn't play ball. He refused to allow the pipeline to go through Syria. That made him a target the US had to demonize with fictitious stories of savagery he committed against his people just like with every other leader in the Middle East the US murdered. So the US government declared him a savage animal and wanted to overthrow him. The problem? Russia was Assad's ally. And they refused to allow that to happen. They have deep ties with Assad. As well as naval bases in Syria. So that resulted in a proxy war. The US aiding, arming, and training savage barbaric monsters aka Isis, aka Islamic barbarians to fight for them to take over Syria. And the Russians, who actually are on the right side, who are supporting Assad and fighting these monsters. This is all about energy folks. Natural gas and Russia's strangle hold on europes nat gas supply. When you understand this, the level of barbarism the US is engaging in puts the fedgov in a whole new level of depravity in most people's eyes.
  - alexandercrohde 9y ago
    do you have any sources for these claims?
    - pehtis 9y ago
      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-10/competing-gas-pipelines-are-fueling-syrian-war-migrant-crisis http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-10/competing-gas-pipel...
      - knowaveragejoe 9y ago
        Any better sources? ZH is notoriously sensationalist and often completely wrong.
    - zacurry 9y ago

by r721 9y ago

skrebbel 9y ago

Anyone got a tl;dr about the motive behind all this? What does the US government gain by flooding the middle East with weapons?

stefantalpalaru 9y ago
> What does the US government gain by flooding the middle East with weapons? A bigger market: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex
misja111 9y ago
The war in Syria is a proxy for a battle between two countries: Iran on the one side, which supports Assad's regime, and Saudi Arabia on the other side, which supports the Sunnite rebel groups ISIS and Al Qaida. Saudi Arabia is an ally of the US and Iran an enemy, so therefore the US supports the rebel groups that fight Assad's regime. What's more, US's close ally Israel is right at the border of Syria and Israel is a long time enemy of Iran as well.
- Quarrelsome 9y ago
  Assad is also Russia, that's a pretty big deal. Its worth noting how this conflict also draws in people linked to Hamas and Hezbollah. Its suspected that part of ISIS's emergence was due to Turkey as they expanded towards the Kurds (a key demographic that Turkey is keen on subduing) so it really is a clusterfuck before we even start to consider US/Russian involvement.
  - travmatt 9y ago
    Syria is also home to a large Russian airbase and contains strategically/economically important warm water ports - Syria is a very valuable Russian ally, probably why the prospect destroying that relationship is so enticing.
vermontdevil 9y ago
Proxy war against Russia and Iran.
mfukar 9y ago
The answers to the question "what is there to gain?" are fairly obvious, don't you think?
- skrebbel 9y ago
  No, otherwise I wouldn't ask.
banned1 9y ago
Funds?
phyller 9y ago
The article says they are theoretically only arming groups that are fighting against ISIS. I'm pretty sure if they can defeat them on the ground without committing American troops (airstrikes can only do so much) and only spending $1 billion dollars they are going to consider that a big win. The sentiment of this question explains why even further. ISIS does very bad stuff and is a major problem, and we can all wonder why the west doesn't do more to stop them because they clearly have the ability to do so. But then the moment the US gets really involved, everyone is going to shift blame to them for everything. I don't condone secretive actions like this myself, but considering the US's global influence and capability, if they weren't doing something about ISIS the question could easily be restated "What does the US government gain by allowing extremists to rape and pillage the middle east?"
- raverbashing 9y ago
  "only arming groups that are fighting against ISIS" Yeah, a lot of "moderate rebels" (that are slightly less theocratic than ISIS)
  - phyller 9y ago
    Yea. I think every employee of a 3 letter agency should be required to write a scholarly paper on the term "blowback" and have it peer reviewed before they get to spend any money.
  - tboyd47 9y ago
    Unfortunately, the US military has transferred the Cold War strategy of "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" to radical pseudo-Islamic militant groups. That's not going to work so well because you might have two groups that have exactly the same beliefs except they gave allegiance to a different imam so they consider each other to be kuffar.
- icebraining 9y ago
  The US already has troops on the ground, at least a few members of the special forces are working with the SDF/YPG on the front lines.
cfv 9y ago
Shitting on Russia's projection of power?
travmatt 9y ago
Broadly, America has traditionally supported Sunni leaning states, most notably Saudi Arabia. Russia has traditionally supported Shia Iran, and both the powers are competing for influence within the region. In the course of the Arab Spring, the legitimacy of many ME leaders/dictators was questioned, among the most notable of these was the rule of Bashar al-Assad of Syria. A popular local outpouring of resentment against his regime was coopted and inflamed by hardline Sunni extremists, many of these being veterans of the Iraq War or younger generations of recuits. This escalated into a full civil war, which quickly turned into a proxy battle for control over Syria, which heretofore had been a Russian proxy state, with a large air base. While the United States has been arming anti-Assad (who also are notably anti-American) forces, Russia has been targeting civilian population centers (with both conventional and chemical weapons) to first create then inflame the Syrian refugee crisis, driving political instability first throughout Turkey then the EU - both sides seeking to ratchet up the pressure on terms favorable to them. The tl;dr is a civil war turned proxy war is creating some of the most acute human suffering present in our world today.
- liopleurodon 9y ago
  "Russia has been targeting civilian population centers (with both conventional and chemical weapons)" citation needed
  - tudorw 9y ago
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/27/499578650/dozens-dead-in-what-unicef-calls-one-of-the-worst-school-bombings-in-syrias-war http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/27/499578650/... "This year, UNICEF "said it has verified at least 38 attacks on schools around Syria, whether in government-held areas or rebel-controlled territory. Before Wednesday's attack, 32 children were killed in 2016 in attacks on schools," as the group's regional chief of communication, Juliette Touma, told The Associated Press. "A total of 60 attacks were recorded on schools in 2015," she told the AP, adding that 1 in 3 schools in the country have been rendered unusable by the conflict." "At least 96 children have been killed and 223 injured in eastern Aleppo in the past week, UNICEF said Thursday, with some left to die on the floor of hospitals due to lack of medical supplies. Syrian and Russian forces have been bombarding rebel-held areas of the city for five straight days in what has been described as the most intense bombing campaign to hit the city since the war in Syria started six years ago." https://news.vice.com/article/un-slams-russia-syria-for-killing-children-in-aleppo https://news.vice.com/article/un-slams-russia-syria-for-kill...
notfromhere 9y ago
It's western policy to prevent any unified arab state to emerge from the middle east. ...not that the middle east needs the help dividing itself, but a pan-arab superstate would probably be bad news bears for the Med region
X86BSD 9y ago
This is the reason Syria was destabilized by the US. Natural gas to Europe. Period. This is not about Assad, the US is simply demonizing him to justify their destruction of another secular soverign country. Russia supplies Europe with almost all of its natural gas. This is unacceptable to the west. What the west wants is to drag nat gas up from Qatar through Syria to the med and north into Europe breaking Russia's strangle hold on their nat gas. The problem? Assad wouldn't play ball. He refused to allow the pipeline to go through Syria. That made him a target the US had to demonize with fictitious stories of savagery he committed against his people just like with every other leader in the Middle East the US murdered. So the US government declared him a savage animal and wanted to overthrow him. The problem? Russia was Assad's ally. And they refused to allow that to happen. They have deep ties with Assad. As well as naval bases in Syria. So that resulted in a proxy war. The US aiding, arming, and training savage barbaric monsters aka Isis, aka Islamic barbarians to fight for them to take over Syria. And the Russians, who actually are on the right side, who are supporting Assad and fighting these monsters. This is all about energy folks. Natural gas and Russia's strangle hold on europes nat gas supply. When you understand this, the level of barbarism the US is engaging in puts the fedgov in a whole new level of depravity in most people's eyes.
- alexandercrohde 9y ago
  do you have any sources for these claims?
  - pehtis 9y ago
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-10/competing-gas-pipelines-are-fueling-syrian-war-migrant-crisis http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-10/competing-gas-pipel...
    - knowaveragejoe 9y ago
      Any better sources? ZH is notoriously sensationalist and often completely wrong.
  - zacurry 9y ago