16 ms·

I understand your appreciation for the software but begging for another subscription fee? One feature here is that the authors charge a normal fee and are not g

I understand your appreciation for the software but begging for another subscription fee? One feature here is that the authors charge a normal fee and are not greedy in your pockets, like 1Password and many others. I really do appreciate the classic software pricing. It could be a higher fee, or more frequent but I'm really tired of all the Recurring costs!

eberkund 9y ago
Exactly, for every one person like this there are probably many who would not renew if they went subscription. It's not like they rely entirely on new customers, the company only has two employees and I'm sure ST3 will be out for a few years and then ST4 will come along. Software companies existed long before "cloud licensing" became the norm.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- 8draco8 9y ago
  I am not fan of replacing classic pricing model with recurring payments but instead of forcing recurring payment, allow that option for extra feature. Make the base app as it is now and add something on top of that for small fee. Like I suggested earlier, make small cloud service for syncing configs, addons and projects between installations. It's not a big thing, not deal breaking, it can be even done using rsync by user but I would happily pay couple dollars for that functionality and I would support devs. Development is recurring cost. Without aggressive marketing, like for example Microsoft, it's very hard to pay developers from selling not recurring licences every 3 or 4 years.
  - eberkund 9y ago
    I would be okay with them having an optional cloud service for syncing settings. But the issue you talk about is where major version upgrades come in. Sublime text could cease all development tomorrow and not pay another cent towards development, should people have to continue to pay to keep using it? If new major feature are requested then that is grounds for charging and upgrade fee, otherwise I don't see why people should pay.
matthew349hall 9y ago
WOOOHOOOOO! License system for the win! I am getting tired of everyone from Autodesk to Apple switching to subscription methods. Subscriptions enable the company to never push new features, buying the software outright introduces motive to add features.
aantix 9y ago
For a piece of software that enables your career, helps you to provide for yourself and/or family, that you probably utilize for thousands of hours over a given year? ST3 is continuously improved. They are developers. They eat. They have families. Just like you receive a salary, because the software you work on, probably is never done. Why would anyone feel entitled to improvements for a flat rate? Is that not greedy?
- user5994461 9y ago
  Yes. There are endless text editors doing the same for free.
  - alansammarone 9y ago
    I could never find one that is as well thought and as well written as Sublime, and I've tried many, many others before.
    - andyhmltn 9y ago
      Switched from Sublime to VSCode a few months ago and I've found it better to my needs. It's free
      - chewyland 9y ago
        I love Code. It's one of Microsoft's greatest masterpieces.
      - simplify 9y ago
        Not quite free – you're paying in ram. EDIT: I mean more ram than you would use in Sublime. You already paid by buying a faster computer. Some don't want to upgrade their computer; in this case, sublime is well worth its price.
    - lottin 9y ago
      Well-written? I thought it was closed-source.
briandear 9y ago
Greedy? 1Password requires servers. You’re “consuming” that every month. Perhaps if 1Password cost $200 one time?
- izacus 9y ago
  1Password works (or worked) without use of their servers by storing datastore on 3rd party cloud, which incurred no costs to them.
- 5_minutes 9y ago
  5/month to store 1kb of passwords
  - mmargerum 9y ago
    I’m having a big problem paying monthly for a password manager . May have to just roll my own in swift
    - dabockster 9y ago
      There's always KeePassX if they're still around.
      - rodorgas 9y ago
        There is no open source mobile alternative active or big enough to be properly audited/trusted.
        mkarnicki 9y ago
        KeeWeb.info - there you go. Open Source, $0.
        rodorgas 9y ago
        I was using MiniKeePass but it was hard to keep sync. I'm worried about using the hosted version of KeeWeb, also it doesn't seems as practical as a standalone app. But I'll definitely try to host myself (or use locally on the phone?) and give a try. Thanks.
cletus 9y ago
Thing is, software unlike say a book or a movie has sometimes significant maintenance costs. There are always bugs to be fixed, security vulnerabilities are found, third-party libraries need to be upgraded and so on. The danger of the one-off model is that it sometimes creates the wrong incentives. Features and even bug fixes get pushed into newer versions, which may even delay their release until there's enough of them to justify a new version. A good example of this going awry is the RAW file processing for Photoshop (pre-subscription). Newer cameras would get added to new versions of the Camera Raw plugin but you needed a new version of Photoshop to use the newer Camera Raw versions. I honestly don't mind the subscription model and I think Jetbrains has about the best one of all: you get constant acess to upgrades. When you choose to stop subscribing, that simply locks in the latest version you can use (ie you don't lose access entirely). The problem is many companies price subscriptions wrong. They say "our software costs $600 so we should charge $50/month". Because, you know, recouping that cost in a year is somehow reasonable.
- tjoff 9y ago
  Well, in contrast to a physical thing selling two copies is exactly as costly as selling one. I'd argue that that more than covers the cost of continued development. I can't say I recognize that wrong incentives in real life and I've yet to find a single piece of software that I'm willing to pay a subscription for. It all comes down to business ethics, are you trying to rip off your customers? Most can't afford to piss off their paying users so they play nice (and I hope that is not the only reason they are being reasonable).
  - webbrahmin 9y ago
    I completely agree with you. I was a user of Balsamiq mock-up tool. But since they moved on to subscription model I stopped using it.
    - arkitaip 9y ago
      Balsamic mockups desktop is still a single 99 USD purchase. Maybe you thinking of the other versions?
jwr 9y ago
"Greedy"? Software is something that needs to be continuously developed and maintained. Charging a one-time fee is a fundamentally unsustainable approach. We all have to face reality and start paying for software as a subscription. Now, that will likely end the bubble of "I can buy 100 apps, most of which I'll never use", which we have been in for the last 20 years or so. But perhaps the few apps that people will pay for will become better as a result. I'm hoping for it.
- sangnoir 9y ago
  > Software is something that needs to be continuously developed and maintained. Not always. Sometimes software is "done" and warrants no further changes or maintenance. I have run into this issue with mobile apps that worked perfectly to my satisfaction until the authors decided to "redesign" or "improve" it. I think subscription is a valid use case for customers who want active maintenance, but it should be opt-in. I detest the forced-subscription model that JetBrains attempted ("Didn't pay the latest subscription? We'll brick the application you've installed and are running on your hardware").
  - cdelsolar 9y ago
    Do they actually brick it? I thought they just stopped upgrading it.
    - sangnoir 9y ago
      Reposting links I added in another reply. Yes they announced the bricking plans (http://bytecrafter.blogspot.com/2015/09/how-jetbrains-lost-years-of-customer.html http://bytecrafter.blogspot.com/2015/09/how-jetbrains-lost-y...) and then backtracked (https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/18/final-update-on-the-jetbrains-toolbox-announcement/#more-7340 https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/18/final-update-on-t...) - which is why I said "attempted".
  - FooBarWidget 9y ago
    Sometimes, sure. But nowadays software is more often than not something that isn't simply done and needs continuous updates, in the face of security vulnerabilities, changing requirements (people using the software for changing use cases), platform updates (new version of macOS or Linux that breaks compatibility), etc.

eberkund 9y ago

Exactly, for every one person like this there are probably many who would not renew if they went subscription. It's not like they rely entirely on new customers, the company only has two employees and I'm sure ST3 will be out for a few years and then ST4 will come along. Software companies existed long before "cloud licensing" became the norm.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
8draco8 9y ago
I am not fan of replacing classic pricing model with recurring payments but instead of forcing recurring payment, allow that option for extra feature. Make the base app as it is now and add something on top of that for small fee. Like I suggested earlier, make small cloud service for syncing configs, addons and projects between installations. It's not a big thing, not deal breaking, it can be even done using rsync by user but I would happily pay couple dollars for that functionality and I would support devs. Development is recurring cost. Without aggressive marketing, like for example Microsoft, it's very hard to pay developers from selling not recurring licences every 3 or 4 years.
- eberkund 9y ago
  I would be okay with them having an optional cloud service for syncing settings. But the issue you talk about is where major version upgrades come in. Sublime text could cease all development tomorrow and not pay another cent towards development, should people have to continue to pay to keep using it? If new major feature are requested then that is grounds for charging and upgrade fee, otherwise I don't see why people should pay.

matthew349hall 9y ago

WOOOHOOOOO! License system for the win! I am getting tired of everyone from Autodesk to Apple switching to subscription methods. Subscriptions enable the company to never push new features, buying the software outright introduces motive to add features.

aantix 9y ago

For a piece of software that enables your career, helps you to provide for yourself and/or family, that you probably utilize for thousands of hours over a given year? ST3 is continuously improved. They are developers. They eat. They have families. Just like you receive a salary, because the software you work on, probably is never done. Why would anyone feel entitled to improvements for a flat rate? Is that not greedy?

user5994461 9y ago
Yes. There are endless text editors doing the same for free.
- alansammarone 9y ago
  I could never find one that is as well thought and as well written as Sublime, and I've tried many, many others before.
  - andyhmltn 9y ago
    Switched from Sublime to VSCode a few months ago and I've found it better to my needs. It's free
    - chewyland 9y ago
      I love Code. It's one of Microsoft's greatest masterpieces.
    - simplify 9y ago
      Not quite free – you're paying in ram. EDIT: I mean more ram than you would use in Sublime. You already paid by buying a faster computer. Some don't want to upgrade their computer; in this case, sublime is well worth its price.
  - lottin 9y ago
    Well-written? I thought it was closed-source.

briandear 9y ago

Greedy? 1Password requires servers. You’re “consuming” that every month. Perhaps if 1Password cost $200 one time?

izacus 9y ago
1Password works (or worked) without use of their servers by storing datastore on 3rd party cloud, which incurred no costs to them.
5_minutes 9y ago
5/month to store 1kb of passwords
- mmargerum 9y ago
  I’m having a big problem paying monthly for a password manager . May have to just roll my own in swift
  - dabockster 9y ago
    There's always KeePassX if they're still around.
    - rodorgas 9y ago
      There is no open source mobile alternative active or big enough to be properly audited/trusted.
      - mkarnicki 9y ago
        KeeWeb.info - there you go. Open Source, $0.
        rodorgas 9y ago
        I was using MiniKeePass but it was hard to keep sync. I'm worried about using the hosted version of KeeWeb, also it doesn't seems as practical as a standalone app. But I'll definitely try to host myself (or use locally on the phone?) and give a try. Thanks.

cletus 9y ago

Thing is, software unlike say a book or a movie has sometimes significant maintenance costs. There are always bugs to be fixed, security vulnerabilities are found, third-party libraries need to be upgraded and so on. The danger of the one-off model is that it sometimes creates the wrong incentives. Features and even bug fixes get pushed into newer versions, which may even delay their release until there's enough of them to justify a new version. A good example of this going awry is the RAW file processing for Photoshop (pre-subscription). Newer cameras would get added to new versions of the Camera Raw plugin but you needed a new version of Photoshop to use the newer Camera Raw versions. I honestly don't mind the subscription model and I think Jetbrains has about the best one of all: you get constant acess to upgrades. When you choose to stop subscribing, that simply locks in the latest version you can use (ie you don't lose access entirely). The problem is many companies price subscriptions wrong. They say "our software costs $600 so we should charge $50/month". Because, you know, recouping that cost in a year is somehow reasonable.

tjoff 9y ago
Well, in contrast to a physical thing selling two copies is exactly as costly as selling one. I'd argue that that more than covers the cost of continued development. I can't say I recognize that wrong incentives in real life and I've yet to find a single piece of software that I'm willing to pay a subscription for. It all comes down to business ethics, are you trying to rip off your customers? Most can't afford to piss off their paying users so they play nice (and I hope that is not the only reason they are being reasonable).
- webbrahmin 9y ago
  I completely agree with you. I was a user of Balsamiq mock-up tool. But since they moved on to subscription model I stopped using it.
  - arkitaip 9y ago
    Balsamic mockups desktop is still a single 99 USD purchase. Maybe you thinking of the other versions?

jwr 9y ago

"Greedy"? Software is something that needs to be continuously developed and maintained. Charging a one-time fee is a fundamentally unsustainable approach. We all have to face reality and start paying for software as a subscription. Now, that will likely end the bubble of "I can buy 100 apps, most of which I'll never use", which we have been in for the last 20 years or so. But perhaps the few apps that people will pay for will become better as a result. I'm hoping for it.

sangnoir 9y ago
> Software is something that needs to be continuously developed and maintained. Not always. Sometimes software is "done" and warrants no further changes or maintenance. I have run into this issue with mobile apps that worked perfectly to my satisfaction until the authors decided to "redesign" or "improve" it. I think subscription is a valid use case for customers who want active maintenance, but it should be opt-in. I detest the forced-subscription model that JetBrains attempted ("Didn't pay the latest subscription? We'll brick the application you've installed and are running on your hardware").
- cdelsolar 9y ago
  Do they actually brick it? I thought they just stopped upgrading it.
  - sangnoir 9y ago
    Reposting links I added in another reply. Yes they announced the bricking plans (http://bytecrafter.blogspot.com/2015/09/how-jetbrains-lost-years-of-customer.html http://bytecrafter.blogspot.com/2015/09/how-jetbrains-lost-y...) and then backtracked (https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/18/final-update-on-the-jetbrains-toolbox-announcement/#more-7340 https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/18/final-update-on-t...) - which is why I said "attempted".
- FooBarWidget 9y ago
  Sometimes, sure. But nowadays software is more often than not something that isn't simply done and needs continuous updates, in the face of security vulnerabilities, changing requirements (people using the software for changing use cases), platform updates (new version of macOS or Linux that breaks compatibility), etc.