5 ms·

The theological arguments are really much more important than the scientific ones. Genesis 6 conflicts with the basic monotheistic nature of Christianity, and m

by beojan 9y ago

The theological arguments are really much more important than the scientific ones. Genesis 6 conflicts with the basic monotheistic nature of Christianity, and means there's no real way to take Genesis literally while professing the Nicene creed (which pretty much defines Christianity).

oldandtired 9y ago
In what way? Have you studied the underpinnings of the language used? Is this an interpretation based on you reading an English version of those passages? Pray tell why it undermines the monotheism of Christianity?
- beojan 9y ago
  We're talking about taking Genesis literally. Genesis 6 uses the phrase "sons of God" which contradicts the Nicene creed which states "We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God".
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    The Nicene Creed was later amended in Constantinople to include the word "begotten" to clarify that Jesus was considered a natural born son of God, not simply an adopted son or someone with a special title. This was not an invention but a clarification since the word "begotten" (monogenēs in Greek) is used in the canonical bible, being one of the main points of John 1, but reaffirmed in Hebrews and John's first epistle. It's pretty clear that the Genesis 6 "sons of God" is an idiom or group title of some sort, but it's not clear precisely what was meant. More reading on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim#Interpretations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim#Interpretations EDIT: It's important to read the Bible in the genre and context it was written in. Taking the bible literally means taking it seriously, not being overly literal. Often the Bible often talks about people "lying together" when it clearly saying "had sex", for example.
    - beojan 9y ago
      This is precisely my point. Why would you take this part metaphorically, but insist that God have literally created the world in 7 days? EDIT: I think you misunderstood slightly. I consider Christianity to be defined by the Nicene creed. You're a Christian if you profess the creed, and you're not if you don't. Ergo a literal reading of the bible is incompatible with Christianity.
      - humanrebar 9y ago
        > Why would you take this part metaphorically, but insist that God have literally created the world in 7 days? There are a few schools of thought about this, but three popular ones are: 1. The creation story is a different genre. It's a poem, not a historical account, so you can think the Bible is absolutely true while allowing for poetic license in these chapters. The genre shifts back to history later in Genesis (with various opinions on where that is, some saying one creation passage of Genesis is poetic, the other historical). 2. The word "day" is mistranslated. It's better translated as "era". As in "back in the day". So Genesis is describing seven prehistoric eras. 3. Since the passage also refers to sunsets and sunrises, it's literally a rotation of the Earth. But God is omnipotent, so it's fine. ...and there are a few other competing thoughts. Do you have a scientific problem with any of the ones I listed? Other objections are fine, too, but I'm mostly trying to show how science and biblical literalism are fine together. The usual objections to #3 involve carbon dating, fossil records, etc., but none of them really refute the creation story as much as describe the world that already exists. Why couldn't God have created pre-decayed isotopes and a fossil record? That's a metaphysical and/or theological question, not a scientific one. So we don't really have a scientific conflict here. In my mind, God could have easily tweaked input parameters (to, say, make sure Earth has oceans and continents) and "JIT recompiled" the universe like so much source code. Why didn't Genesis describe the creation process more specifically? That's, again, a theological question, not a scientific one. But, practically, how would you describe, say, writing software, to a literate ancient Egyptian Jew (i.e, Moses)?
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        #1 is not literalism, it is a reason for rejecting a literal reading of certain passages. “The Bible is sometimes literally true, but sometimes not” is the view that literalism is defined in opposition to.

by beojan 9y ago

oldandtired 9y ago

In what way? Have you studied the underpinnings of the language used? Is this an interpretation based on you reading an English version of those passages? Pray tell why it undermines the monotheism of Christianity?

beojan 9y ago
We're talking about taking Genesis literally. Genesis 6 uses the phrase "sons of God" which contradicts the Nicene creed which states "We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God".
- humanrebar 9y ago
  The Nicene Creed was later amended in Constantinople to include the word "begotten" to clarify that Jesus was considered a natural born son of God, not simply an adopted son or someone with a special title. This was not an invention but a clarification since the word "begotten" (monogenēs in Greek) is used in the canonical bible, being one of the main points of John 1, but reaffirmed in Hebrews and John's first epistle. It's pretty clear that the Genesis 6 "sons of God" is an idiom or group title of some sort, but it's not clear precisely what was meant. More reading on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim#Interpretations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim#Interpretations EDIT: It's important to read the Bible in the genre and context it was written in. Taking the bible literally means taking it seriously, not being overly literal. Often the Bible often talks about people "lying together" when it clearly saying "had sex", for example.
  - beojan 9y ago
    This is precisely my point. Why would you take this part metaphorically, but insist that God have literally created the world in 7 days? EDIT: I think you misunderstood slightly. I consider Christianity to be defined by the Nicene creed. You're a Christian if you profess the creed, and you're not if you don't. Ergo a literal reading of the bible is incompatible with Christianity.
    - humanrebar 9y ago
      > Why would you take this part metaphorically, but insist that God have literally created the world in 7 days? There are a few schools of thought about this, but three popular ones are: 1. The creation story is a different genre. It's a poem, not a historical account, so you can think the Bible is absolutely true while allowing for poetic license in these chapters. The genre shifts back to history later in Genesis (with various opinions on where that is, some saying one creation passage of Genesis is poetic, the other historical). 2. The word "day" is mistranslated. It's better translated as "era". As in "back in the day". So Genesis is describing seven prehistoric eras. 3. Since the passage also refers to sunsets and sunrises, it's literally a rotation of the Earth. But God is omnipotent, so it's fine. ...and there are a few other competing thoughts. Do you have a scientific problem with any of the ones I listed? Other objections are fine, too, but I'm mostly trying to show how science and biblical literalism are fine together. The usual objections to #3 involve carbon dating, fossil records, etc., but none of them really refute the creation story as much as describe the world that already exists. Why couldn't God have created pre-decayed isotopes and a fossil record? That's a metaphysical and/or theological question, not a scientific one. So we don't really have a scientific conflict here. In my mind, God could have easily tweaked input parameters (to, say, make sure Earth has oceans and continents) and "JIT recompiled" the universe like so much source code. Why didn't Genesis describe the creation process more specifically? That's, again, a theological question, not a scientific one. But, practically, how would you describe, say, writing software, to a literate ancient Egyptian Jew (i.e, Moses)?
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        #1 is not literalism, it is a reason for rejecting a literal reading of certain passages. “The Bible is sometimes literally true, but sometimes not” is the view that literalism is defined in opposition to.