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> Nope, this is Oracle stop caring about Java EE. They are not doing this for Java SE as long as they are caring about Java SE. That's strange. How do they mak

by _pmf_ 9y ago

> Nope, this is Oracle stop caring about Java EE. They are not doing this for Java SE as long as they are caring about Java SE. That's strange. How do they make money off SE but not EE? EE has been the cash cow that kept Java alive after applets fell out of favor.

Delmania 9y ago
If I remember correctly, Oracle has a licensing scheme if you want to build and release your own JVM. Java SE always has significant more usage in production thanks to Android, Kotlin, Clojure, and Scala. While Java EE does get used a lot in more conservative large enterprises, the alternatives developed to overcome the inherent complexity of EE (Spring, Hibernate) get a LOT more. Java EE is big, but Java SE is even bigger.
- thedudemabry 9y ago
  Thanks for the explanation. As someone who in a past life developed Java systems (post-2006) for a variety of targets, I was never super clear on what Java EE's value proposition was or how it differed from frameworks that didn't require a separate install. I now gather that it is a collection of helpful packages constituting a framework, but distributed separately from mainline Java core packages.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Java EE was also the cloud, before the term was coined. When targeting EE application servers, you don't need to worry at all where it is being executed. As an application, container, bare metal, whatever. Of course this only works ad long as no native methods or APIs for file or process management are used.
needusername 9y ago
> EE has been the cash cow that kept Java alive after applets fell out of favor. I have no insight into Oracles reasoning or finances, I can just see their actions. While I assume they make money off WebLogic licenses I can't image that revenue is growing in the double digit range per year. I assume that Oracle as a publicly traded company is forced to produce growth numbers. These days that's could. They probably some imagine to provide some sort of Java could, that would explain why they pushed so hard for Jigsaw. This doesn't really have make sense to you and me, just to Oracle execs.

by _pmf_ 9y ago

Delmania 9y ago

If I remember correctly, Oracle has a licensing scheme if you want to build and release your own JVM. Java SE always has significant more usage in production thanks to Android, Kotlin, Clojure, and Scala. While Java EE does get used a lot in more conservative large enterprises, the alternatives developed to overcome the inherent complexity of EE (Spring, Hibernate) get a LOT more. Java EE is big, but Java SE is even bigger.

thedudemabry 9y ago
Thanks for the explanation. As someone who in a past life developed Java systems (post-2006) for a variety of targets, I was never super clear on what Java EE's value proposition was or how it differed from frameworks that didn't require a separate install. I now gather that it is a collection of helpful packages constituting a framework, but distributed separately from mainline Java core packages.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Java EE was also the cloud, before the term was coined. When targeting EE application servers, you don't need to worry at all where it is being executed. As an application, container, bare metal, whatever. Of course this only works ad long as no native methods or APIs for file or process management are used.

needusername 9y ago

> EE has been the cash cow that kept Java alive after applets fell out of favor. I have no insight into Oracles reasoning or finances, I can just see their actions. While I assume they make money off WebLogic licenses I can't image that revenue is growing in the double digit range per year. I assume that Oracle as a publicly traded company is forced to produce growth numbers. These days that's could. They probably some imagine to provide some sort of Java could, that would explain why they pushed so hard for Jigsaw. This doesn't really have make sense to you and me, just to Oracle execs.