3 ms·

As more moderate people fall away from church congregations and other religious groups, only the hardliners and fanatics remain. I am convinced that the rise in

As more moderate people fall away from church congregations and other religious groups, only the hardliners and fanatics remain. I am convinced that the rise in religious fundamentalism (amongst all religions) is closely tied to the rise in secularism.

MrBuddyCasino 9y ago
An interesting thought. As the moderates leave, inevitably more extreme forces gain power.
- fredley 9y ago
  I have a theory that, in Britain at least, the distribution of religious fervour is pretty much the same as it was 100 years ago. The difference is that the more moderate people now no longer go to church, meaning the churches are controlled by, and put out more fundamentalist viewpoints. This in turn drives more moderates away. I am one of the moderates, I grew up part of a church congregation, but as I grew up I found almost everyone I met who identified as Christian to have beliefs wildly different from mine. Any Christian gatherings I attended tended towards fundamentalism and the quashing of inquisitive thought about the nature of the World, God etc. I do not believe in God, but I suspect that many churchgoers of 100 years ago didn't really either, and the focus was much more on tradition, ritual and community rather than actual belief. I mourn the loss of this, even though I barely knew it myself, but there are hardly any congregations left for people like me (and yes, I know about movements such as Sunday Assembly, which I have tried out but find equally unpalatable for reasons I can't quite put into words).
  - oldandtired 9y ago
    Interesting. What defines a Christian? One of the common aspects for our young people is to be able to logically discuss why they follow Jesus Christ. They can't rely on their parents or other people as to why they believe. They have to understand for themselves. They need to be able to ask questions and in turn study for themselves all the resources that will support their understanding. Then they have to apply and live by that understanding. I have met many who have had great fervour but no knowledge and understanding and when push comes to shove, they let go. Whereas, there are others who by study and application become fervent and then you have a person that can answer the why of their lives and belief. Seeking a congregation without seeking Him first is a act of futility, you would be better off finding a social club suitable to your interests. Seeking Him first and He will lead you to where He wants you to be. Keep in mind, though you may not believe in Him, He certainly believes in you and is more than willing to show Himself to you if you but willingly seek Him.
    - humanrebar 9y ago
      > Seeking a congregation without seeking Him first is a act of futility... I also see the problem where people become "spiritual" without seeing the need to find a place to belong. Inevitably, when they are their own chief theologian, high priest, counselor, and source of accountability, they have difficulties and make a variety of mistakes. I suspect a lot of the people "losing their religion" in recent decades fall into that category in one way or another. I'm not sure what the label "Catholic" means if you never engage as a Catholic. It becomes a tribal marker, but we have plenty of those in political parties, brand affiliations, nationalist (or cosmopolitan) sentiments, etc.
    - Fjolsvith 9y ago
      For many years I tried to find ways to assure myself that I had found Him. Baptised 3 different times, but never really feeling that something important had happened. Read the bible front to end many times. Had a really sharp bible study leader. I kept challenging him to explain to me how I would know I had been 'saved'. He finally got exasperated and exclaimed, "When you no longer have any doubt about being saved, you're saved!" I stood up and said, "Hallelujah! I'm not saved!!!" From that point on, I knew I could never be saved because of my doubt, and I stopped flagellating myself over Christianity.
humanrebar 9y ago
Agreed except for the negative connotations that the words "hardliners" and "fanatics" carry. "Committed", "fervent", or "zealous" would have worked just as well.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
I don't think so, if you stop past my local church on a Sunday you won't have any worries about fundamentalism, you will just hear endless debate about where the nearest toilet is and what pills people are taking.
- fredley 9y ago
  True, these places still exist, but let me put it this way: How many members of the congregation don't have white/grey/no hair?
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    That is my point, there is no great divide, just an ageing population with a less religious young.

MrBuddyCasino 9y ago

An interesting thought. As the moderates leave, inevitably more extreme forces gain power.

fredley 9y ago
I have a theory that, in Britain at least, the distribution of religious fervour is pretty much the same as it was 100 years ago. The difference is that the more moderate people now no longer go to church, meaning the churches are controlled by, and put out more fundamentalist viewpoints. This in turn drives more moderates away. I am one of the moderates, I grew up part of a church congregation, but as I grew up I found almost everyone I met who identified as Christian to have beliefs wildly different from mine. Any Christian gatherings I attended tended towards fundamentalism and the quashing of inquisitive thought about the nature of the World, God etc. I do not believe in God, but I suspect that many churchgoers of 100 years ago didn't really either, and the focus was much more on tradition, ritual and community rather than actual belief. I mourn the loss of this, even though I barely knew it myself, but there are hardly any congregations left for people like me (and yes, I know about movements such as Sunday Assembly, which I have tried out but find equally unpalatable for reasons I can't quite put into words).
- oldandtired 9y ago
  Interesting. What defines a Christian? One of the common aspects for our young people is to be able to logically discuss why they follow Jesus Christ. They can't rely on their parents or other people as to why they believe. They have to understand for themselves. They need to be able to ask questions and in turn study for themselves all the resources that will support their understanding. Then they have to apply and live by that understanding. I have met many who have had great fervour but no knowledge and understanding and when push comes to shove, they let go. Whereas, there are others who by study and application become fervent and then you have a person that can answer the why of their lives and belief. Seeking a congregation without seeking Him first is a act of futility, you would be better off finding a social club suitable to your interests. Seeking Him first and He will lead you to where He wants you to be. Keep in mind, though you may not believe in Him, He certainly believes in you and is more than willing to show Himself to you if you but willingly seek Him.
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    > Seeking a congregation without seeking Him first is a act of futility... I also see the problem where people become "spiritual" without seeing the need to find a place to belong. Inevitably, when they are their own chief theologian, high priest, counselor, and source of accountability, they have difficulties and make a variety of mistakes. I suspect a lot of the people "losing their religion" in recent decades fall into that category in one way or another. I'm not sure what the label "Catholic" means if you never engage as a Catholic. It becomes a tribal marker, but we have plenty of those in political parties, brand affiliations, nationalist (or cosmopolitan) sentiments, etc.
  - Fjolsvith 9y ago
    For many years I tried to find ways to assure myself that I had found Him. Baptised 3 different times, but never really feeling that something important had happened. Read the bible front to end many times. Had a really sharp bible study leader. I kept challenging him to explain to me how I would know I had been 'saved'. He finally got exasperated and exclaimed, "When you no longer have any doubt about being saved, you're saved!" I stood up and said, "Hallelujah! I'm not saved!!!" From that point on, I knew I could never be saved because of my doubt, and I stopped flagellating myself over Christianity.

humanrebar 9y ago

Agreed except for the negative connotations that the words "hardliners" and "fanatics" carry. "Committed", "fervent", or "zealous" would have worked just as well.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago

I don't think so, if you stop past my local church on a Sunday you won't have any worries about fundamentalism, you will just hear endless debate about where the nearest toilet is and what pills people are taking.

fredley 9y ago
True, these places still exist, but let me put it this way: How many members of the congregation don't have white/grey/no hair?
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  That is my point, there is no great divide, just an ageing population with a less religious young.