5 ms·

Can someone explain what Java EE really means? I tried to parse the bundle and license the last time this came up, and I didn't really get anywhere.

by csours 9y ago

qwerty_asdf 9y ago
It means the whole server-side JDK API, including the servlet spec, jsp libs and JDBC SQL framework under the javax.* packages, whether actually distributed as part of the JDK or not. [0,1,2] [0] http://docs.oracle.com/javaee/6/api/javax/persistence/package-summary.html http://docs.oracle.com/javaee/6/api/javax/persistence/packag... / http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/sql/package-summary.html http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/sql/package-s... [1] https://docs.oracle.com/javaee/6/api/javax/servlet/package-summary.html https://docs.oracle.com/javaee/6/api/javax/servlet/package-s... [2] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/jsp/index.html http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/jsp/index.html
camus2 9y ago
> Can someone explain what Java EE really means? I tried to parse the bundle and license the last time this came up, and I didn't really get anywhere. It's no different than Web standards between browsers, it's a collection of API specifications describing how web applications should be architectured in Java. Then different libraries can follow the spec. JavaEE also has a reference implementation which used to be done by Sun/Oracle. The problem with JavaEE is, by being too broad and generic, it is incredibly complex and often fails to solve today's developers problems. I mean who cares about JSF(java server face, a way to describe "HTML GUI widgets" in XML) when most applications use a RESTful architecture? Beans session persistance? ... JEE has a lot of technical debt, the word is definitely appropriate here.
- xienze 9y ago
  > I mean who cares about JSF(java server face, a way to describe "HTML GUI widgets" in XML) Well, a lot of people did because once upon a time that's how we wrote applications (primarily via server-side rendering). > when most applications use a RESTful architecture? Java EE has an API for that... > JEE has a lot of technical debt Can't argue with that, but it comes in the form of APIs you don't have to use.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Most enterprise shops do care about JSF. I know of many greenfield projects using it, mainly PrimeFaces.
  - tannhaeuser 9y ago
    They do for legacy apps only, though, since JSP, JSF and everything on top of it, such as portlets and faces component libs, has been obsolete for many years now. Handling UI state on the server just doesn't make any technical sense when there are React, Angular and Co as mainstream GUI kits. I guess there are still those shops maintaining intranet apps, and for whom it is a priority that everything is 100% Java, or who can't or don't want to invest into JavaScript or another web stack, but I think a responsible consultant should tell these customers that their stack is on life support now.
    - cjsuk 9y ago
      A lot of enterprise companies aren't buying in JS frameworks because the velocity of those frameworks is too fast. I kind of agree. When you have 50,000 desktops, a 6 month lead dragging a pile of apps over to a new browser is a nightmare scenario. All it takes is one app which the vendor doesn't give a shit about and one internal app deprecating an IE version used by 50 users due to a JS framework change in a branch office and there's a headache from hell on your plate. Fortunately they're all starting to kick out chrome for business now.
      - tannhaeuser 9y ago
        Maybe for those customers it might make sense to donate to the Eclipse foundation to keep JSF etc. alive and to keep Java-only devs afloat? But then maintenance of J2EE has ceased because it's not economically feasible.
        cjsuk 9y ago
        It probably would but it won't happen. It's difficult getting anything like that through the layers of purchasing hell. If they provided a web site with pictures of boxes of software for min $2000 that never arrived and didn't do anything it might work better. The moment someone says "donate" the bean counters start sharpening their pitchforks.
forgotpw1123 9y ago
the more esoteric corners of Java. It's like someone just offered to support windows XP forever. I highly recommenced donating to the Eclipse Foundation, they have made an impact far out of proportion to their size close to Bill Gates, but what they're doing for the good of us all might not be profitable.
- xienze 9y ago
  There's nothing esoteric about Java EE at all, what are you talking about? It has, among other things, the standard API for creating REST services, data binding via XML and JSON, persistence, etc.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
solomatov 9y ago
You can think of it as a standardized API for creation of enterprise web applications.
emergie 9y ago
It's basically Java SE + a standarized stack of technologies, that are usually used in server applications: Servlet, EJB, CDI, JSP, JSF, JTA, JPA... Java EE is not the only way of doing serverside java apps - most of systems i've developed used tomcat + spring-* stack, which is not a Java EE platform. I think reading this project page may help clarify what Java EE is: http://openejb.apache.org/apache-tomee.html http://openejb.apache.org/apache-tomee.html
- guelo 9y ago
  Spring + tomcat is built on J2EE, or at least it was 5 years ago when I worked on that stuff. The servlets API is part of J2EE.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Many of the annotation based APIs from Spring are actually JEE as well.
  - StevePerkins 9y ago
    The whole "Spring is really JEE" retort is even more pedantic than the folks who insist on referring to "Linux" as "GNU/Linux". These days it's more fair to say that Spring "supports optional integration" with JEE API's. You can run modern Spring web/REST apps without a Servlet container. Spring doesn't care whether your ORM implements the JPA interfaces or not. Etc, etc... it's all slowly phasing out.

Can someone explain what Java EE really means? I tried to parse the bundle and license the last time this came up, and I didn't really get anywhere.

by csours 9y ago

Can someone explain what Java EE really means? I tried to parse the bundle and license the last time this came up, and I didn't really get anywhere.

qwerty_asdf 9y ago

It means the whole server-side JDK API, including the servlet spec, jsp libs and JDBC SQL framework under the javax.* packages, whether actually distributed as part of the JDK or not. [0,1,2] [0] http://docs.oracle.com/javaee/6/api/javax/persistence/package-summary.html http://docs.oracle.com/javaee/6/api/javax/persistence/packag... / http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/sql/package-summary.html http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/sql/package-s... [1] https://docs.oracle.com/javaee/6/api/javax/servlet/package-summary.html https://docs.oracle.com/javaee/6/api/javax/servlet/package-s... [2] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/jsp/index.html http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/jsp/index.html

camus2 9y ago

> Can someone explain what Java EE really means? I tried to parse the bundle and license the last time this came up, and I didn't really get anywhere. It's no different than Web standards between browsers, it's a collection of API specifications describing how web applications should be architectured in Java. Then different libraries can follow the spec. JavaEE also has a reference implementation which used to be done by Sun/Oracle. The problem with JavaEE is, by being too broad and generic, it is incredibly complex and often fails to solve today's developers problems. I mean who cares about JSF(java server face, a way to describe "HTML GUI widgets" in XML) when most applications use a RESTful architecture? Beans session persistance? ... JEE has a lot of technical debt, the word is definitely appropriate here.

xienze 9y ago
> I mean who cares about JSF(java server face, a way to describe "HTML GUI widgets" in XML) Well, a lot of people did because once upon a time that's how we wrote applications (primarily via server-side rendering). > when most applications use a RESTful architecture? Java EE has an API for that... > JEE has a lot of technical debt Can't argue with that, but it comes in the form of APIs you don't have to use.
pjmlp 9y ago
Most enterprise shops do care about JSF. I know of many greenfield projects using it, mainly PrimeFaces.
- tannhaeuser 9y ago
  They do for legacy apps only, though, since JSP, JSF and everything on top of it, such as portlets and faces component libs, has been obsolete for many years now. Handling UI state on the server just doesn't make any technical sense when there are React, Angular and Co as mainstream GUI kits. I guess there are still those shops maintaining intranet apps, and for whom it is a priority that everything is 100% Java, or who can't or don't want to invest into JavaScript or another web stack, but I think a responsible consultant should tell these customers that their stack is on life support now.
  - cjsuk 9y ago
    A lot of enterprise companies aren't buying in JS frameworks because the velocity of those frameworks is too fast. I kind of agree. When you have 50,000 desktops, a 6 month lead dragging a pile of apps over to a new browser is a nightmare scenario. All it takes is one app which the vendor doesn't give a shit about and one internal app deprecating an IE version used by 50 users due to a JS framework change in a branch office and there's a headache from hell on your plate. Fortunately they're all starting to kick out chrome for business now.
    - tannhaeuser 9y ago
      Maybe for those customers it might make sense to donate to the Eclipse foundation to keep JSF etc. alive and to keep Java-only devs afloat? But then maintenance of J2EE has ceased because it's not economically feasible.
      - cjsuk 9y ago
        It probably would but it won't happen. It's difficult getting anything like that through the layers of purchasing hell. If they provided a web site with pictures of boxes of software for min $2000 that never arrived and didn't do anything it might work better. The moment someone says "donate" the bean counters start sharpening their pitchforks.

forgotpw1123 9y ago

the more esoteric corners of Java. It's like someone just offered to support windows XP forever. I highly recommenced donating to the Eclipse Foundation, they have made an impact far out of proportion to their size close to Bill Gates, but what they're doing for the good of us all might not be profitable.

xienze 9y ago
There's nothing esoteric about Java EE at all, what are you talking about? It has, among other things, the standard API for creating REST services, data binding via XML and JSON, persistence, etc.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

solomatov 9y ago

You can think of it as a standardized API for creation of enterprise web applications.

emergie 9y ago

It's basically Java SE + a standarized stack of technologies, that are usually used in server applications: Servlet, EJB, CDI, JSP, JSF, JTA, JPA... Java EE is not the only way of doing serverside java apps - most of systems i've developed used tomcat + spring-* stack, which is not a Java EE platform. I think reading this project page may help clarify what Java EE is: http://openejb.apache.org/apache-tomee.html http://openejb.apache.org/apache-tomee.html

guelo 9y ago
Spring + tomcat is built on J2EE, or at least it was 5 years ago when I worked on that stuff. The servlets API is part of J2EE.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Many of the annotation based APIs from Spring are actually JEE as well.
- StevePerkins 9y ago
  The whole "Spring is really JEE" retort is even more pedantic than the folks who insist on referring to "Linux" as "GNU/Linux". These days it's more fair to say that Spring "supports optional integration" with JEE API's. You can run modern Spring web/REST apps without a Servlet container. Spring doesn't care whether your ORM implements the JPA interfaces or not. Etc, etc... it's all slowly phasing out.