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JPMorgan's Dimon says Bitcoin 'is a fraud'

11 points by oblib 9y ago

dharma1 9y ago
here's a video with his explanation. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-raises-flag-on-trading-revenue-sees-20-percent-fall-for-the-third-quarter.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-rai... TD;LR - blockchain tech separate from cryptocurrencies, governments will shut bitcoin down, price is purely speculative and has no real use. Nothing you haven't heard before
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
oblib 9y ago
"Dimon said that if any JPMorgan traders were trading the crypto-currency, “I would fire them in a second, for two reasons: It is against our rules and they are stupid, and both are dangerous.”"
- transverse 9y ago
  I assume the way they would do it is by investing in hedge funds or elsewhere who also invest in crypto.
maxerickson 9y ago
Dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229765 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229765
dbcooper 9y ago
JP Morgan has it's own (Etherium derived) blockchain system for transactions and smart contracts, Quorum. https://www.jpmorgan.com/global/Quorum https://www.jpmorgan.com/global/Quorum
- fragsworth 9y ago
  Sounds like Jamie Dimon's got a serious case of the hypocrisy going on. The impression I'm getting is that the banks are now realizing it's probably too late for them. For the last 7 years they had some chances, but now with a $150 billion market cap for crypto, they can't purchase any significant share of the technology anymore. That ship has sailed. So now they can only resort to shit flinging and disparaging remarks like "Bitcoin is a fraud". While at the same time trying to make their own altcoin...
- thablackbull 9y ago
  No, he specifically separated out the blockchain technology from the currency component. Via FT Alphaville [1], he says, "I’m going to be really clear in this one. Forget the blockchain, that’s a technology… But… the currency isn’t going to work." The article also points this out, but doesn't differentiate it which has the effect of making him sound hypocritical. > JPMorgan and many of its competitors, however, have invested millions of dollars in blockchain, the technology that tracks bitcoin transactions. Blockchain is a shared ledger of transactions maintained by a network of computers on the internet. [1]: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/09/12/2193624/money-creator-is-getting-really-annoyed-by-wannabe-competitor/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/09/12/2193624/money-creator...
adamnemecek 9y ago
Unlike JPMorgan that's like squeaky clean.
kapauldo 9y ago
Crypyo transactions are largely speculative not transactive so he is right, crypto is currently a pump and dump fraud. Plus the only way in besides mining is to reveal your identity so the premise is largely broken for most people.
orthecreedence 9y ago
Um, what differentiates bitcoin from a stock on the open market (other than the technicalities, centralized vs decentralized)? Stocks are just virtual pieces of paper saying you own X amount of something. So is bitcoin. Stocks are valued not by some formula, but by the constant battle between buyers and sellers. So is bitcoin. The only real differences are that stocks are somewhat more protected (SEC and all that) and are not treated as property like bitcoin. I guess if you own enough stock you can steer the company you own to some degree, whereas with bitcoin the developers have more of a say than the holders. Other than that, whether you like bitcoin or hate it, it has many more similarities to the stock market than differences, and anyone who spends their day in the stock market then turns and thumbs their nose at bitcoin seems a bit hypocritical.
- empthought 9y ago
  Bitcoin's entire value proposition by its backers is use as a currency, but you are correct that it is much more like a stock than like a currency. However, unlike (most) stocks it has no value aside from what it can be sold for. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2017/05/17/bitcoin-is-an-asset-not-a-currency https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2017/05/17/bitco... has more.
- vikiomega9 9y ago
  At the very least stocks have well defined metrics tied to company financials with which value is quantified.
  - AstralStorm 9y ago
    Plus they can also pay directly in dividends.
- ry4n413 9y ago
  Stock: A security issued by a corporation that represents an ownership right in the assets of the corporation and a right to a proportionate share of profits after payment of corporate liabilities and obligations.
hiyer 9y ago
The pertinent question for him would be whether it's a bigger fraud than Mortgage-Backed Securities and Collateralized Debt Obligations.

11 points by oblib 9y ago

here's a video with his explanation. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-raises-flag-on-trading-revenue-sees-20-percent-fall-for-the-third-quarter.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-rai... TD;LR - blockchain tech separate from cryptocurrencies, governments will shut bitcoin down, price is purely speculative and has no real use. Nothing you haven't heard before

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

oblib 9y ago

"Dimon said that if any JPMorgan traders were trading the crypto-currency, “I would fire them in a second, for two reasons: It is against our rules and they are stupid, and both are dangerous.”"

transverse 9y ago
I assume the way they would do it is by investing in hedge funds or elsewhere who also invest in crypto.

maxerickson 9y ago

Dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229765 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229765

dbcooper 9y ago

JP Morgan has it's own (Etherium derived) blockchain system for transactions and smart contracts, Quorum. https://www.jpmorgan.com/global/Quorum https://www.jpmorgan.com/global/Quorum

fragsworth 9y ago
Sounds like Jamie Dimon's got a serious case of the hypocrisy going on. The impression I'm getting is that the banks are now realizing it's probably too late for them. For the last 7 years they had some chances, but now with a $150 billion market cap for crypto, they can't purchase any significant share of the technology anymore. That ship has sailed. So now they can only resort to shit flinging and disparaging remarks like "Bitcoin is a fraud". While at the same time trying to make their own altcoin...
thablackbull 9y ago
No, he specifically separated out the blockchain technology from the currency component. Via FT Alphaville [1], he says, "I’m going to be really clear in this one. Forget the blockchain, that’s a technology… But… the currency isn’t going to work." The article also points this out, but doesn't differentiate it which has the effect of making him sound hypocritical. > JPMorgan and many of its competitors, however, have invested millions of dollars in blockchain, the technology that tracks bitcoin transactions. Blockchain is a shared ledger of transactions maintained by a network of computers on the internet. [1]: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/09/12/2193624/money-creator-is-getting-really-annoyed-by-wannabe-competitor/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/09/12/2193624/money-creator...

adamnemecek 9y ago

Unlike JPMorgan that's like squeaky clean.

kapauldo 9y ago

Crypyo transactions are largely speculative not transactive so he is right, crypto is currently a pump and dump fraud. Plus the only way in besides mining is to reveal your identity so the premise is largely broken for most people.

orthecreedence 9y ago

Um, what differentiates bitcoin from a stock on the open market (other than the technicalities, centralized vs decentralized)? Stocks are just virtual pieces of paper saying you own X amount of something. So is bitcoin. Stocks are valued not by some formula, but by the constant battle between buyers and sellers. So is bitcoin. The only real differences are that stocks are somewhat more protected (SEC and all that) and are not treated as property like bitcoin. I guess if you own enough stock you can steer the company you own to some degree, whereas with bitcoin the developers have more of a say than the holders. Other than that, whether you like bitcoin or hate it, it has many more similarities to the stock market than differences, and anyone who spends their day in the stock market then turns and thumbs their nose at bitcoin seems a bit hypocritical.

empthought 9y ago
Bitcoin's entire value proposition by its backers is use as a currency, but you are correct that it is much more like a stock than like a currency. However, unlike (most) stocks it has no value aside from what it can be sold for. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2017/05/17/bitcoin-is-an-asset-not-a-currency https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2017/05/17/bitco... has more.
vikiomega9 9y ago
At the very least stocks have well defined metrics tied to company financials with which value is quantified.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  Plus they can also pay directly in dividends.
ry4n413 9y ago
Stock: A security issued by a corporation that represents an ownership right in the assets of the corporation and a right to a proportionate share of profits after payment of corporate liabilities and obligations.

hiyer 9y ago

The pertinent question for him would be whether it's a bigger fraud than Mortgage-Backed Securities and Collateralized Debt Obligations.