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> The apparent [appeal] of this message wasn’t limited to chauvinist TechBros. Many “moderate” commentators also seemed quite impressed. After all, the memo was

> The apparent [appeal] of this message wasn’t limited to chauvinist TechBros. Many “moderate” commentators also seemed quite impressed. After all, the memo wasn’t arguing that all men, or even most of them, are better suited than women for tech jobs. That would be ridiculous! But since the existence of sex differences in some traits is scientifically uncontroversial, some supporters of the Google Memo claimed the scientific high-ground. “You see? We aren’t sexist or biased”, they proclaimed. “This is just science.” And you can’t hate on science. The tone of this introduction doesn't inspire confidence that the author is truth-seeking without agenda. > Remember, a 1 SD shift is a pretty big one (e.g. a difference of 3 inches for height), so not suprisingly, the evidence seems to suggest that the 10% increase in the mean is the more realistic scenario for most variables where differences seem to exist. Several times he references the Stevens/Haidt results, but doesn't seem to acknowledge this finding from Stevens/Haidt (https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/08/10/the-google-memo-what-does-the-research-say-about-gender-differences/ https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/08/10/the-google-memo-what...): > Gender differences in interest and enjoyment of math, coding, and highly “systemizing” activities are large. The difference on traits related to preferences for “people vs. things” is found consistently and is very large, with some effect sizes exceeding 1.0. (See especially the meta-analyses by Su and her colleagues, and also see this review paper by Ceci & Williams, 2015).

MaysonL 9y ago
And of course, preference for people over things would be a very useful (some might even say essential) trait to have among some members of a software engineering team.
- lucio 9y ago
  Having "preference for people over things" will lead you to choose other more fulfilling careers than software engineering.
naasking 9y ago
> Several times he references the Stevens/Haidt results, but doesn't seem to acknowledge this finding from Stevens/Haidt (https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/08/10/the-google-memo-what... https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/08/10/the-google-memo-what...): Excellent citation. I think it overreaches a little in attributing the position that women don't perform as well as men at software engineering, ie. they label many claims red which people have attributed to Damore, but he didn't make those claims; I believe Damore said the exact opposite actually, that women absolutely can perform at the same level, but that women simply aren't interested in CS careers. Your cite covers this in the conclusions, so it's pretty fair overall. As your citation explains, in societies with greater gender equality, women have so many other choice of careers that CS just isn't an attractive option. Perhaps it's not attractive for reasons that can be changed, but those reasons should be investigated, not simply assumed to be driven by sexism.
- yellowapple 9y ago
  Hell, for all we know those reasons for disinterest might actually stem from sexism in some form or other. If that's the case, then that's where we need to be focusing our attention as a society rather than trying to extrapolate from the end result (employee gender ratios) alone.

MaysonL 9y ago

And of course, preference for people over things would be a very useful (some might even say essential) trait to have among some members of a software engineering team.

lucio 9y ago
Having "preference for people over things" will lead you to choose other more fulfilling careers than software engineering.

naasking 9y ago

> Several times he references the Stevens/Haidt results, but doesn't seem to acknowledge this finding from Stevens/Haidt (https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/08/10/the-google-memo-what... https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/08/10/the-google-memo-what...): Excellent citation. I think it overreaches a little in attributing the position that women don't perform as well as men at software engineering, ie. they label many claims red which people have attributed to Damore, but he didn't make those claims; I believe Damore said the exact opposite actually, that women absolutely can perform at the same level, but that women simply aren't interested in CS careers. Your cite covers this in the conclusions, so it's pretty fair overall. As your citation explains, in societies with greater gender equality, women have so many other choice of careers that CS just isn't an attractive option. Perhaps it's not attractive for reasons that can be changed, but those reasons should be investigated, not simply assumed to be driven by sexism.

yellowapple 9y ago
Hell, for all we know those reasons for disinterest might actually stem from sexism in some form or other. If that's the case, then that's where we need to be focusing our attention as a society rather than trying to extrapolate from the end result (employee gender ratios) alone.