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I think there are a few disadvantages Reddit has here. The first that comes to mind is that website administrators, especially for large and politically-charged

I think there are a few disadvantages Reddit has here. The first that comes to mind is that website administrators, especially for large and politically-charged sites, might like Reddit's software, but not its ... um, culture. "Just embed Reddit" sounds approximately like "just embed 4chan". While smaller sites are happy to give up some control for the sake of easily adding a major feature to their site, larger businesses are probably going to want to own their own content and self-host their code as much as possible. Reddit has a non-trivial set of dependencies (https://github.com/reddit/reddit/wiki/Dependencies https://github.com/reddit/reddit/wiki/Dependencies), so it's not very attractive as far as that goes. My from-my-ass guess is that once Reddit ended up in the mainstream news a few times for some drama or another, it lost the opportunity to be taken seriously as an embeddable feature by other major sites.

jedberg 9y ago
But that feels like a marketing fail. You don't have to accepts reddit's culture to embed it's comments. You can have a subreddit that you control where you can moderate it and remove any content you don't like. As a site owner, you can have full control over the content if you want.
- thaumaturgy 9y ago
  Subreddits don't exist in a vacuum though (and I say this as a big fan of some smaller subreddits with pretty awesome communities, like /r/vandwellers). So even if we set aside the question of self-ownership of data vs. embedding, WaPo would look at this as an opportunity to either create their own culture, with their own weirdos and brilliant people, or to start with Reddit's and try to moderate their way towards the culture they want. Framed that way, I think Reddit's at a disadvantage. If Slashdot had provided the option of just embedding their comment system onto Reddit pages, would Reddit ca. 2004 had done that instead of building their own?
  - jedberg 9y ago
    > would Reddit ca. 2004 had done that instead of building their own? Maybe, but probably not, largely because they could not fully control the content, like WaPo could do today. In this day and age, commenting on the internet is pretty mature, and the best systems have years of data to feed their anti-spam algorithms. Just like you can run your own mail server today, most people don't because it's a pain in the butt and it's a lot easier to take advantage of someone else's expertise. It's the same with comments. It's a lot easier to let someone else do it.
    - thaumaturgy 9y ago
      Heh, I run my own mail server. I don't think Slashdot offered the kind of users that early Reddit founders wanted to seed their userbase with. But, I can't prove that, so I'll have to take your word for it that Reddit would have been open to the idea except for the quality of the imagined software. I've been purposely gentle because I'm a long-time Reddit user -- I remember when comments were turned on for the first time -- and although I still think the main folks behind Reddit are pretty cool and built something really big that has had incalculable impact, I also have a lot of old axes to grind and I don't want your honest question to turn into an opportunity for me to do that. But. Your response here has essentially been, "everything's fine, you can just moderate the content, we provide the tools to do that. Maybe this is just a marketing problem." It's not just a marketing problem. Moderators have publicly castigated Reddit admins on multiple occasions over the tooling they have available (example from quick search: https://np.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/3byxtg/regarding_todays_reddit_drama/ https://np.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/3byxtg/regardi...). Articles titled "Reddit is tearing itself apart" have been published on sites with widespread readership (http://gizmodo.com/reddit-is-tearing-itself-apart-1789406294 http://gizmodo.com/reddit-is-tearing-itself-apart-1789406294). There was that GameOfTrolls subreddit that openly harassed other subreddits and Reddit administration plainly ignored it for quite a while until they finally stepped over some fine line in the site rules. A publication like WaPo would certainly be a target for that kind of abuse. I would have to assume that whoever is involved in making decisions about comments on their site must be at least a little bit aware of the potential for abuse here. They were one of the first (or the first?) to have their own profile page. They grok Reddit, and they decided not to have Reddit embedded into their site. That's just not a marketing problem. Reddit administration made a decision early on to take a hands-off approach to community management. One of the consequences of that is that a significant part of Reddit's community is the sort of culture that sites like the Washington Post don't want to have to spend their time dealing with, and the moderation tools Reddit provides are just not good enough to make up for it.
- natrius 9y ago
  It's a marketing fail. The commenting system needs a separate brand. If you were going to use Kinja or Chorus, you wouldn't assume you were dragging along the culture that its existing publishers have. To an extent, "just use the subreddit's moderation" is a product fail, too. It needs to feel like a standalone product, not embedding another site that you might not completely understand.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  But you still have to tell the reader to go to Reddit and make an account if they want to comment.
- bmm6o 9y ago
  > You can have a subreddit that you control where you can moderate it and remove any content you don't like. Are the moderation tools up to it? I've always thought they had the reputation of being underpowered. Or is that just another marketing fail?
  - ukyrgf 9y ago
    They filter out quite a bit by default, and you have to choose to turn it off. What many subreddit mods do is have a bot that auto-approves stuff based on more specific criteria. That gives a lot of room to blame the forces that be when things get hinky.
- jhgb 9y ago
  > You can have a subreddit that you control where you can moderate it and remove any content you don't like. Or your very own installation of https://github.com/reddit/reddit https://github.com/reddit/reddit ?
  - abricot 9y ago
    Reddit is no longer Open Source. As i understand it from the blog post[1] the actual code used to run reddit cannot be build from the original repository alone. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/6xfyfg/an_update_on_the_state_of_the_redditreddit_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/6xfyfg/an_update...
    - jhgb 9y ago
      Heh. Time to clone it in Chez. Or Arc! :)
Ajedi32 9y ago
> might like Reddit's software, but not its ... um, culture Which culture? Outside of the default subs, I'm not sure its really accurate to say that Reddit _has_ a singular culture, except perhaps in the same broad sense we might say that "the internet" has one. Rather, each subreddit has its own unique culture, and there can be a _lot_ of variance between the cultures of different subreddits.
- TACIXAT 9y ago
  In my opinion, the overall theme of reddit is heavy moderation. You have subreddits on all sides of the political and social spectrums that ban dissenting opinions (e.g. the_donald and latestagecapitalism). Even what jedberg is suggesting - >As a site owner, you can fully moderate the conversation by only embedding comments from a subreddit you fully control. I agree that moderation is necessary (hate speech, spam, etc.), but allowing any individual(s) to create arbitrary rules feels really awful. I wish there was an overall "moderation guidelines" for popular subs that enabled discussions to occur, and some recourse if mods abused their powers. Right now it's an echo chamber machine and I'm starting to hate it.

jedberg 9y ago

But that feels like a marketing fail. You don't have to accepts reddit's culture to embed it's comments. You can have a subreddit that you control where you can moderate it and remove any content you don't like. As a site owner, you can have full control over the content if you want.

thaumaturgy 9y ago
Subreddits don't exist in a vacuum though (and I say this as a big fan of some smaller subreddits with pretty awesome communities, like /r/vandwellers). So even if we set aside the question of self-ownership of data vs. embedding, WaPo would look at this as an opportunity to either create their own culture, with their own weirdos and brilliant people, or to start with Reddit's and try to moderate their way towards the culture they want. Framed that way, I think Reddit's at a disadvantage. If Slashdot had provided the option of just embedding their comment system onto Reddit pages, would Reddit ca. 2004 had done that instead of building their own?
- jedberg 9y ago
  > would Reddit ca. 2004 had done that instead of building their own? Maybe, but probably not, largely because they could not fully control the content, like WaPo could do today. In this day and age, commenting on the internet is pretty mature, and the best systems have years of data to feed their anti-spam algorithms. Just like you can run your own mail server today, most people don't because it's a pain in the butt and it's a lot easier to take advantage of someone else's expertise. It's the same with comments. It's a lot easier to let someone else do it.
  - thaumaturgy 9y ago
    Heh, I run my own mail server. I don't think Slashdot offered the kind of users that early Reddit founders wanted to seed their userbase with. But, I can't prove that, so I'll have to take your word for it that Reddit would have been open to the idea except for the quality of the imagined software. I've been purposely gentle because I'm a long-time Reddit user -- I remember when comments were turned on for the first time -- and although I still think the main folks behind Reddit are pretty cool and built something really big that has had incalculable impact, I also have a lot of old axes to grind and I don't want your honest question to turn into an opportunity for me to do that. But. Your response here has essentially been, "everything's fine, you can just moderate the content, we provide the tools to do that. Maybe this is just a marketing problem." It's not just a marketing problem. Moderators have publicly castigated Reddit admins on multiple occasions over the tooling they have available (example from quick search: https://np.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/3byxtg/regarding_todays_reddit_drama/ https://np.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/3byxtg/regardi...). Articles titled "Reddit is tearing itself apart" have been published on sites with widespread readership (http://gizmodo.com/reddit-is-tearing-itself-apart-1789406294 http://gizmodo.com/reddit-is-tearing-itself-apart-1789406294). There was that GameOfTrolls subreddit that openly harassed other subreddits and Reddit administration plainly ignored it for quite a while until they finally stepped over some fine line in the site rules. A publication like WaPo would certainly be a target for that kind of abuse. I would have to assume that whoever is involved in making decisions about comments on their site must be at least a little bit aware of the potential for abuse here. They were one of the first (or the first?) to have their own profile page. They grok Reddit, and they decided not to have Reddit embedded into their site. That's just not a marketing problem. Reddit administration made a decision early on to take a hands-off approach to community management. One of the consequences of that is that a significant part of Reddit's community is the sort of culture that sites like the Washington Post don't want to have to spend their time dealing with, and the moderation tools Reddit provides are just not good enough to make up for it.
natrius 9y ago
It's a marketing fail. The commenting system needs a separate brand. If you were going to use Kinja or Chorus, you wouldn't assume you were dragging along the culture that its existing publishers have. To an extent, "just use the subreddit's moderation" is a product fail, too. It needs to feel like a standalone product, not embedding another site that you might not completely understand.
s73ver_ 9y ago
But you still have to tell the reader to go to Reddit and make an account if they want to comment.
bmm6o 9y ago
> You can have a subreddit that you control where you can moderate it and remove any content you don't like. Are the moderation tools up to it? I've always thought they had the reputation of being underpowered. Or is that just another marketing fail?
- ukyrgf 9y ago
  They filter out quite a bit by default, and you have to choose to turn it off. What many subreddit mods do is have a bot that auto-approves stuff based on more specific criteria. That gives a lot of room to blame the forces that be when things get hinky.
jhgb 9y ago
> You can have a subreddit that you control where you can moderate it and remove any content you don't like. Or your very own installation of https://github.com/reddit/reddit https://github.com/reddit/reddit ?
- abricot 9y ago
  Reddit is no longer Open Source. As i understand it from the blog post[1] the actual code used to run reddit cannot be build from the original repository alone. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/6xfyfg/an_update_on_the_state_of_the_redditreddit_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/6xfyfg/an_update...
  - jhgb 9y ago
    Heh. Time to clone it in Chez. Or Arc! :)

Ajedi32 9y ago

> might like Reddit's software, but not its ... um, culture Which culture? Outside of the default subs, I'm not sure its really accurate to say that Reddit _has_ a singular culture, except perhaps in the same broad sense we might say that "the internet" has one. Rather, each subreddit has its own unique culture, and there can be a _lot_ of variance between the cultures of different subreddits.

TACIXAT 9y ago
In my opinion, the overall theme of reddit is heavy moderation. You have subreddits on all sides of the political and social spectrums that ban dissenting opinions (e.g. the_donald and latestagecapitalism). Even what jedberg is suggesting - >As a site owner, you can fully moderate the conversation by only embedding comments from a subreddit you fully control. I agree that moderation is necessary (hate speech, spam, etc.), but allowing any individual(s) to create arbitrary rules feels really awful. I wish there was an overall "moderation guidelines" for popular subs that enabled discussions to occur, and some recourse if mods abused their powers. Right now it's an echo chamber machine and I'm starting to hate it.