5 ms·

> Are you feeling picked-on because of what you're saying, or how you're saying it? That's impossible to answer without telepathy. (Aside from topics that gen

> Are you feeling picked-on because of what you're saying, or how you're saying it? That's impossible to answer without telepathy. (Aside from topics that generate lots of discussion that weighs one particular way, I find it impossible to determine a priori whether a particular viewpoint is controversial on HN. For instance I have recently and wrongly predicted that transhumanism would be uncontroversial; and while I've noted this as evidence for future predictions, I am unable to explain it logically.)

mikekchar 9y ago
I often use HN to practice writing. Good writing resonates with people. A post that is well thought out, well researched, communicates clearly and doesn't assume anything of the reader will often get up votes in my experience. For me, the vast majority of down votes come from me being wrong (that is, I post something that I think is correct; I get down votes; I do more research and discover that I am, indeed, incorrect). In fact, this is such a good flag for my writing that when I get a down vote I immediately assume I must have made a mistake somewhere and start looking for it. The next most common source of down votes (for me) is being argumentative. If I get a down vote, but decide that I am correct, I often discover that the tone of my writing is derisive. In all honesty, I never intend to have this tone of writing, but I am human and sometimes (either through lack of writing skill, or by unconsciously being an ass) it happens. My guess is that the person I'm responding too gets pissed off and down votes me. This has led me to have a kind of rule to try very hard never to piss off the parent poster, even if I think they are wrong. If I can't think of a way to comment without pissing off the parent, I try not to post. As a huge bonus, this avoids me getting dragged into >90% of trolling efforts (a statistic that I made up). The next most common cause of down votes for me is lack of coherency in the comment. Sometimes people simply don't understand what I'm saying. It is important to realise that as a writer, you can't assume the readers understand what you are thinking, so this is completely down to you. Trying to put yourself into the role of a random reader and figuring out what they might think when they read your post is hard. However, this is what being a good writer is about. Again, if I write a post and upon reviewing it, I don't think most people will understand, I don't submit it. Related to the last point, there are lots of times where I have relatively unique ideas. Very frequently people will not know what to think about them because they have never really explored that way of thinking. If I write in a way that makes it clear that I assume that the reader will find what I'm saying is obvious, I will get down votes. In a way it's insulting to say something that is not mainstream and assume that others will instantly understand/agree. Sometimes, if I feel the idea is interesting, I'll still post, but I'll try to broach the subject gently/apologetically. People are doing me a favour by getting out of their comfort zone and considering a different way of thinking. Finally, when I'm posting, I often pick someone to respond to and try my best to help them. If I am successful, I find that the post is usually highly regarded by many people, even though my focus is only on helping one person. YMMV!
- mmirate 9y ago
  > I often use HN to practice writing. ... > The next most common source of down votes (for me) is being argumentative. Interesting. The main thing that motivates me to comment here - other than when someone touches the surface of a topic that piques my curiosity - is when I see something that is either blatantly wrong, or seems to be missing an obvious piece of clarifying information. (Examples of wrongness: C# is the best language one can learn, any random non-MBA-holder can be given a loan and expected to make a successful business of it, random 6-year-olds can understand CS, one person without political office can make a difference among our population of 300 million, etc.)
- grzm 9y ago
  Well said. I've found this to be the case for me personally as well. It also reinforces for me that honest reflection can lead to better understanding (of others and how one comes across) and better communication. You've also underscored how productive communication is more than just laying out facts or correcting mistakes. How one does so strongly affects its effectiveness. And I generally feel happier as a result. In turn, writing when feeling happier results in better comments. A virtuous circle. There are times when I feel I've done my best and the thread doesn't seem to be progressing well. When that happens I take even more time to see whether there's any way I could have approached it better, and restrain myself from having to put in the last word. Effective communication does take effort on the part of both parties. If I feel I've done my best and conclude it's not working, setting it aside is often better than persisting and possibly making the discussion worse.
  - mmirate 9y ago
    > You've also underscored how productive communication is more than just laying out facts or correcting mistakes. How one does so strongly affects its effectiveness. If someone can't understand a simple list of facts unless it's couched in ... literature-course fluff, I suppose it could be called? ... then that's their problem and they're accomplishing precious little by foisting it onto everyone else. > And I generally feel happier as a result. In turn, writing when feeling happier results in better comments. A virtuous circle. Interesting. I find that happiness tends to dull my wit, make me less observant, etc. While it's not unusual for me to recall a long-past conversation (from any medium) and suddenly formulate a much better response at some particular junction ... feeling happy or contented tends to increase the probability that a current conversation will result in this sort of after-the-fact second-guessing.

mikekchar 9y ago

I often use HN to practice writing. Good writing resonates with people. A post that is well thought out, well researched, communicates clearly and doesn't assume anything of the reader will often get up votes in my experience. For me, the vast majority of down votes come from me being wrong (that is, I post something that I think is correct; I get down votes; I do more research and discover that I am, indeed, incorrect). In fact, this is such a good flag for my writing that when I get a down vote I immediately assume I must have made a mistake somewhere and start looking for it. The next most common source of down votes (for me) is being argumentative. If I get a down vote, but decide that I am correct, I often discover that the tone of my writing is derisive. In all honesty, I never intend to have this tone of writing, but I am human and sometimes (either through lack of writing skill, or by unconsciously being an ass) it happens. My guess is that the person I'm responding too gets pissed off and down votes me. This has led me to have a kind of rule to try very hard never to piss off the parent poster, even if I think they are wrong. If I can't think of a way to comment without pissing off the parent, I try not to post. As a huge bonus, this avoids me getting dragged into >90% of trolling efforts (a statistic that I made up). The next most common cause of down votes for me is lack of coherency in the comment. Sometimes people simply don't understand what I'm saying. It is important to realise that as a writer, you can't assume the readers understand what you are thinking, so this is completely down to you. Trying to put yourself into the role of a random reader and figuring out what they might think when they read your post is hard. However, this is what being a good writer is about. Again, if I write a post and upon reviewing it, I don't think most people will understand, I don't submit it. Related to the last point, there are lots of times where I have relatively unique ideas. Very frequently people will not know what to think about them because they have never really explored that way of thinking. If I write in a way that makes it clear that I assume that the reader will find what I'm saying is obvious, I will get down votes. In a way it's insulting to say something that is not mainstream and assume that others will instantly understand/agree. Sometimes, if I feel the idea is interesting, I'll still post, but I'll try to broach the subject gently/apologetically. People are doing me a favour by getting out of their comfort zone and considering a different way of thinking. Finally, when I'm posting, I often pick someone to respond to and try my best to help them. If I am successful, I find that the post is usually highly regarded by many people, even though my focus is only on helping one person. YMMV!

mmirate 9y ago
> I often use HN to practice writing. ... > The next most common source of down votes (for me) is being argumentative. Interesting. The main thing that motivates me to comment here - other than when someone touches the surface of a topic that piques my curiosity - is when I see something that is either blatantly wrong, or seems to be missing an obvious piece of clarifying information. (Examples of wrongness: C# is the best language one can learn, any random non-MBA-holder can be given a loan and expected to make a successful business of it, random 6-year-olds can understand CS, one person without political office can make a difference among our population of 300 million, etc.)
grzm 9y ago
Well said. I've found this to be the case for me personally as well. It also reinforces for me that honest reflection can lead to better understanding (of others and how one comes across) and better communication. You've also underscored how productive communication is more than just laying out facts or correcting mistakes. How one does so strongly affects its effectiveness. And I generally feel happier as a result. In turn, writing when feeling happier results in better comments. A virtuous circle. There are times when I feel I've done my best and the thread doesn't seem to be progressing well. When that happens I take even more time to see whether there's any way I could have approached it better, and restrain myself from having to put in the last word. Effective communication does take effort on the part of both parties. If I feel I've done my best and conclude it's not working, setting it aside is often better than persisting and possibly making the discussion worse.
- mmirate 9y ago
  > You've also underscored how productive communication is more than just laying out facts or correcting mistakes. How one does so strongly affects its effectiveness. If someone can't understand a simple list of facts unless it's couched in ... literature-course fluff, I suppose it could be called? ... then that's their problem and they're accomplishing precious little by foisting it onto everyone else. > And I generally feel happier as a result. In turn, writing when feeling happier results in better comments. A virtuous circle. Interesting. I find that happiness tends to dull my wit, make me less observant, etc. While it's not unusual for me to recall a long-past conversation (from any medium) and suddenly formulate a much better response at some particular junction ... feeling happy or contented tends to increase the probability that a current conversation will result in this sort of after-the-fact second-guessing.