4 ms·
Something that I think people underestimate is just how easy it is to observe you entering your password on a phone, and why that (in my opinion) makes thumbpri
by lathiat 9y ago
Something that I think people underestimate is just how easy it is to observe you entering your password on a phone, and why that (in my opinion) makes thumbprints much more secure than passwords for casual usage - e.g. every-time you unlock your phone.
All you need is a camera over your shoulder and you don't even need to observe the key-presses as generally the current character is displayed on screen. You could likely observe 100s or 1000s of them a day with an overhead camera at transit stations and the like.
The same thing goes for "Tap And Go" contact less payments not requiring a PIN number under $100.
Everyone goes on about how people can run up a few hundred dollars at different stores with your card if they steal it. But consider exposing your pin to surveillance during most common transactions which then also lets you remove cash from an ATM with that card if stolen which is much harder to recover and is also much higher value than the generally $30-$100 limit for transactions without a PIN.
Next minute you'll freak out when I tell you I can clone your house key from a photo of it hanging off your belt...
The general point is that security trade-offs are generally deeper than you might realise on the surface, especially at "public outrage" levels of observation which so frequently haunt the public mind in recent times.
- riphay 9y agoThis is a great point, and why I'd like to see more features being locked without a passcode. The move in iOS 11 to restrict device imaging without a passcode is a great step in this direction. Perhaps we can see more customization as to what biometrics unlock and what they don't?
- consp 9y agoAs long as biometrics don't unlock secrets (keys, passphrases, shared data etc) it is fine. In all other cases you are correct and it needs some form of replaceable, retractable secret i.e. a passphrase. This would be a very welcome feature but considering how the secret stores work at this point it is not likely to see this any time soon. Sidenote: The false positive rate on any biometrics is way higher than you think (it is highly disadvantageous to be black unfortunately, yes biometrics are racist). People usually consider the near bound (e.g. small sample size, high differentiation unless you have twin) of the people around them as proof it is impossible but this has been problem a fallacy in even mediocre sized studies. It still works but I would really like to see your suggestion to make sure real secrets are properly stored/safe.
- majewsky 9y ago> As long as biometrics don't unlock secrets (keys, passphrases, shared data etc) it is fine. That's a weird definition of "secrets". Mails may contain secrets. Pictures may contain secrets. Messenger posts may contain secrets (cf. all the leaks of chatlogs). If I remove all apps from the homescreen that may contain secrets, that leaves me with the flashlight and Candy Crush.
- aidenn0 9y agoThe other thing is that I kept my phone unlocked in the time after physical keyboards were dead but before fingerprints. There are way to many situations where I want to unlock my phone with one-hand. A fingerprint lock is way more secure than no lock.
- Jaruzel 9y agoPeople will freak out... but I don't lock my phone. Never have. It's either in my pocket or in my hand, and I never ever put it down in public. If get mugged (god forbid.. and do people still mug other people for phones these days?) there's nothing mega personal on it, and I can remote erase it pretty quickly.
- qqg3 9y agoWhere do you live? Any urban center anywhere in the world phone theft is common.
- Jaruzel 9y agoI wasn't sure, hence asking. London, UK. btw.
- majewsky 9y agoI live in Dresden (Germany), and I've never even heard of anyone who has been mugged here. Sure, there will be cases in the statistics, but I can not name anyone who has been mugged, ever.
- aidenn0 9y agoTheft is a superset of robbery; I know plenty of people who have had their phone stolen because they left it lying out in the open
- rodorgas 9y agoOn ATMs they use a keyboard with random multiple digits per key, e.g. "2 or 7", "8 or 0", etc. That's a defense to the "observing-attack", but it's slow and boring. Also, someone could unlock with other password.