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Edward Snowden Interview: 'There Is Still Hope - Even for Me'
- djschnei 9y agoIs there video of the interview?
- 2OEH8eoCRo 9y agoEdward Snowden leaked classified information and ran to the Russians with classified information. The man is a coward. Daniel Ellsberg is a hero.
- burke 9y agoPeople keep saying this, but I've never seen any evidence provided... he was flying from Hong Kong to South America through Moscow, because none of those nations were likely to interfere on behalf of America. His passport was pulled while he was in Moscow, preventing him from boarding his flight. Russia saw more value in keeping him as a potential bargaining chip than in killing him or returning him, so he's still in Moscow. None of this, AFAIK, has been refuted by anyone that could meaningfully refute it. What am I missing? If he had intended to end in Russia, you can be damn sure the USG would have publicly refuted the notion that they'd pulled his passport.
- lern_too_spel 9y agoHe flew to Hong Kong and hoped to stay there. The Chinese government kicked him out after he had already given the South China Morning Post a list of Chinese computer systems compromised by the NSA and when they were compromised. http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1266777/exclusive-snowden-safe-hong-kong-more-us-cyberspying-details-revealed http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1266777/exclusive...
- mikeyouse 9y agoThere's a very interesting "Cuba Document"[1] that hints at something else happening in the background of 2013; On April 4th, the head of the Russian FSB in Cuba traveled to Ecuador and met with Ecuadoran intelligence agents to "address issues of bilateral cooperation". Notes from this meeting and the credentials of the Russian team ended up in a file marked "Assange" at the Ecuadoran embassy in London. On April 5th, Snowden sent his only email about his concerns to the NSA. Through the rest of the month, he starts downloading all of the documents. In Mid-May, he flees to Hong Kong with the documents he's exfiltrated. In June, he flies to Moscow using an Ecuadorean travel document, where he plans to connect on a flight to Cuba. After US pressure, Cuba and Ecuador both agreed not to grant him asylum, but it's suspicious that a note detailing Cuban FSB agents meeting with Ecuadorean reps ends up in Julian Assange's file on the day before Snowden starts his exfil op. [1] - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C61t121WgAA9IFQ.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C61t121WgAA9IFQ.jpg
- glasz 9y agonow thats interesting. has there been more research into this?
- mikeyouse 9y agoPeople have asked various representatives but short of an admission by one of the involved parties or US intelligence agencies detailing what they know, I don't think there's a good way to do any additional research.
- StavrosK 9y agoSorry, can someone clarify this for someone not very well versed in this case? What's FSB, and what's the implication from that evidence? That Snowden is a spy?
- mikeyouse 9y agoFSB is Russian Intelligence -- The successor to the KGB. The 'Cuban' bit is important too. Russia has agents in South America, including in Ecuador, the presence of the head of the Cuban division in Quito likely points to some sort of op involving Cuba. > And what's the implication from that evidence? That Snowden is a spy? Some people think that, I don't think you can draw that conclusion at all from just one meeting. It merely hints that the Russians had advanced knowledge that Snowden would be traveling through Moscow en route to Cuba, likely due to Assange. It also hints that they knew Snowden would be stealing troves of documents from the NSA before he actually stole the documents. From there you have to guess their motivation to assist him. Were they doing so as part of a quid pro quo? Were they doing so to 'poke' America and annoy our intelligence agencies? Did they plan to take all of Snowden's intel when he was in the Russian airport? Motivation is hard to assess but it changes the story fairly significantly if Snowden's travel plans involved two hostile superpowers and were arranged with their consent before he had taken a single document or even filed his complaint about the NSA's process.
- gargarplex 9y agoWhat if Snowden intended to end in Russia and has been an agent for a long time? I fail to see the logic that USG would have publicly refuted the notion that they'd pulled his passport. Please illuminate.
- cyberpunk0 9y agoYou mean after he ran to multiple other places narrowly making to Russia in the first place.
- armenarmen 9y agoRealizes how immoral and corrupt the government is, thinks that these immoral and corrupt people might do him physical harm, evades that harm. Yeah, total coward. C'mon, really?
- krastanov 9y agoYou are oversimplifying a bit. Reaching to superiors has proven to be ineffective way to bring attention to crimes in his organization. After that was established, he reached out to respected journalists instead of doing something irresponsible like leaking indiscriminately like Wikileaks do.
- DSMan195276 9y agoAt the same time, he also leaked information on legimate surveillance programs. Not everything he reported was a crime. It's not exactly a black and white issue.
- dmichulke 9y agoYes, not everything was (is?) a crime as defined by the very same state that commits the 'non-crime'. In history there have been many instances were horrible actions were not defined as crime.
- DSMan195276 9y agoYou're missing the point. Whether or not you like the NSA, it shouldn't be shocking that they're spying on other countries, that is part/all of its intended purpose. Maybe they shouldn't be, but that's not really Snowden's place to decide. The NSA is spying on American citizens (and doing so without telling them) is likely illegal, and that's the big revelation that Snowden released. But he also released lots of secret/confidential information on legitimate foreign intelligence operations, and even if you're ok with that it's not like that's something that should/can just get a free pass. There's a difference between leaking things because you believe they are illegal, and leaking things because you don't like them. One is protected, the other is not. Snowden essentially did both.
- dmichulke 9y ago> There's a difference between leaking things because you believe they are illegal, and leaking things because you don't like them. Exactly that's what I meant: You shouldn't just leak illegal things (because the state itself defines most often that whatever it does is legal). So we only have a moral compass left and it's understandable that those are different for each person. If Snowden thinks that "secret/confidential information on legitimate foreign intelligence operations" is not ok if the target is an ally, then that's his moral judgment and he can leak it. If you disagree, you imply that now that most of the spying on citizens is legalized (post-facto), it's cool. Or - Godwin's law to the rescue - now that the Reichtstag decided that secretly killing jews is fine, leaking is a moral offense ;)
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- yuhong 9y agoMy favorite now is how the national debt goes up every time FBI/NSA spends more money. Which of course causes more money to be printed.
- alexandercrohde 9y agoSnowden gives a really solid interview every time. Very polished. I'm interested that he called out the idea of "deep state." He defines it as political forces that outlast a presidency (by that definition of course it exists i.e. any political party), but perhaps the implied element is a secretive nature and power over a president. I wonder if there's an objective way to answer this.
- bobbles 9y agoThis is basically the entirety of what is represented by the staff of the 'Civil Service' in the BBC show Yes Minister
- QAPereo 9y agoThere have always been concerns about "bureaucratic lifers" in governments, including the US and U.K.
- icebraining 9y ago"James Hacker: The Opposition aren't the opposition. Annie Hacker: No of course not, silly of me. They're just called the opposition. James Hacker: They're only the opposition in exile. The Civil Service is the opposition in residence." Curiously, this dialogue appears in an episode called Big Brother, in which the Minister is trying to add safeguards to a national citizens database.
- nabla9 9y agoThe term "deep state" or "state within state" originally meant very organized shadow governments in countries where government agencies (usually security agencies) don't respond to the civilian political leadership and can have power over them. FBI director J. Edgar Hoover was example of single man holding some amount of 'deep state' power. There justified is fear that increased secrecy in security apparatus in US has started acting in more autonomous way. In the current government the power over WH likely comes mostly from competence difference.
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- maxander 9y agoA line I particularly liked (from the second segment): > "I think it is this new atmosphere of fear and that it won't change until we, as a public, learn to perform a new kind of alchemy and recognize fear when it is being presented. We need to learn to eat fear, to convert it into an energy that can be used to better a society rather than to terrorize and weaken it." A huge percentage of the modern news media is fear-based. In the last U.S. presidential election, both candidates were running on largely fear-based platforms (fear of Mexicans on one end, fear of Trump on the other.) Even most political movements emphasize the terrible thing they're afraid of or angry about instead of actual changes that could be made to fix things. This can't be how things keep working. I'm optimistic that we'll learn this "alchemy," though, for the simple reason that the onslaught of media-terror has become so absurdly intense that people can't help but become jaded. The first time you hear about a murder in your area, it's terrifying; the second time, a bit more expected; what about the tenth? The hundreth? We're being asked to believe in so many terrible things at once that the human mind is just going to give up at some point. As long as we can lose fear without also losing concern, we'll be alright.
- joneil 9y agoKrista Tippett (from the "On Being" podcast) talks about this as one of the most important social tasks at the moment - to help calm fears of those around us so that as a society we're less fearful of each other, and more open to each other. I found it a fascinating call-to-action, as the rise of fear is something I feel like I've been noticing. Having said that, I'm only 30, so don't know if the local pattern of rising fear is part of a larger story of less fear (compared to cold war days, for example).
- tambienben 9y ago>Having said that, I'm only 30, so don't know if the local pattern of rising fear is part of a larger story of less fear (compared to cold war days, for example). There has definitely been a spike in fear-culture post 9/11.
- jacobush 9y agoI am a bit over 40. From how I remember the cold war, most people didn't realise just how bad it was. I mean, risk of happening multiplied by impact.
- soup10 9y agoSnowden seems like a great guy with a good heart. It's a shame that he has been exiled to Moscow for embarrassing the government, but i'm happy he is alive and not in a jail cell.
- stagbeetle 9y agoThe juxtaposition on the front page right now is cool. iPhone X 623 6 hours ago | 1290 comments Edward Snowden Interview: 'There Is Still Hope - Even for Me' 74 points 4 hours ago | 16 comments As they move past from their earthly feelings of shame, whenst they stuck their heads in the sand, now they revel in their vice.
- BoringCode 9y agoYes, there is more to life than the cult of Snowden. No reason to run around with our heads cut off just because the man gave an interview.
- jacobush 9y agoApparently the cult of Apple has a much stronger following.
- warent 9y ago"I think it is this new atmosphere of fear and that it won't change until we, as a public, learn to perform a new kind of alchemy and recognize fear when it is being presented. We need to learn to eat fear, to convert it into an energy that can be used to better a society rather than to terrorize and weaken it." Very well said. In many ways, Snowden keeps the bar high for what we should aspire to be, and what we can be.
- PhibberOptic 9y agoEdward Snowden showing again he's just another stupid criminal. How about coming back to the USA? Chicken!
- ionised 9y agoHe says giving speeches and interviews is out of his comfort zone, but he always comes across as articulate and well-spoken. More than I am for sure. I'm glad he's doing okay though. I believe he did the world a great favour and history will look back on what he did with kindness, even if so many do not look on it that way now.