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And yet, according to the NHTSA, cars are still much safer with it than without it. You seem to be smack-talking rather than offering a reasoned analysis of whe

by chc 9y ago

And yet, according to the NHTSA, cars are still much safer with it than without it. You seem to be smack-talking rather than offering a reasoned analysis of whether Autopilot is better than no-Autopilot.

jonathankoren 9y ago
>Autopilot is better than no-Autopilot. If only there was something to put in the middle of this reasoning! Elon Musk fucked up as soon as he named it "autopilot". He set expectations at autonomous, and released it as a "beta" because that's what you do with some web app, and then when people started using it as an autonomous driving product (because that's what "autopilot" means), they unsurprisingly got killed. But shruggie! Move fast and break things! It's beta! What ya gonna do? On the other hand, if it was called "driver assist", or "super cruise", or some other thing, then drivers' expectations wouldn't be set at "autonomous driving", and then the'd be paying more attention, and probably wouldn't end up dead. I'm sorry, but this is all about setting expectations, and Elon fucked this up.
- chc 9y ago
  I'll agree that the name "Autopilot" seems to mislead people, but that is a complete side track. Neither the person I replied to nor the person he replied to were talking about the name; they were talking about the technology and whether it was responsible to release it at all, with any name. (For one clear example, the GGP criticized "releasing any kind of machine-assisted driving" with Autopilot's limitations.)
- greglindahl 9y ago
  The car makes it clear to drivers what "autopilot" means. The only people who might be confused by the term are non-Tesla drivers.
- blacksmith_tb 9y ago
  It doesn't seem completely misleading, airplanes do a lot of flying on autopilot, but it doesn't mean there's no need for the pilot/co-pilot to be at the controls...
  - lttlrck 9y ago
    No it doesn’t but maybe most people think that’s exactly what it means...
    - Fricken 9y ago
      I'm gonna need something better than myth and superstition to buy into this meme that autopilot users don't understand what autopilot is/isn't capable of because of how it is named.
    - King-Aaron 9y ago
      What you're starting to edge towards, then, is an educational issue. Personally I feel the only time I've seen an 'autopilot' shown as a fully autonomous system was in the 1980's film Airplane! I couldn't narrow down exactly where in life I learned about autopilot systems in aircraft, but I always considered it to be common sense that autopilot doesn't mean "can completely fly itself"
      - carlmr 9y ago
        The media is constantly bringing together the terms autopilot, and driverless or self-driving cars. There's definitely the suggestion that the driver is completely unnecessary. You can't expect the average Joe to look this up. It should clearly be marked as beta and dangerous without supervision. Also Tesla says so themselves: >All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than...
        chc 9y ago
        AFAIK Autopilot is clearly marked as a beta and displays a dialog reminding you of that when you activate it in your car. And "full self-driving capability" is not a reference to Autopilot — it's saying that Tesla eventually plans to implement full self-driving (as a separate feature) and the car includes hardware that will allow you to enable it with just a software upgrade.
BoorishBears 9y ago
The NHTSA should compare ACC+LKA+AEB vs Autopilot (which is all those plus Lane Centering). I'd bet those 3 combined are much safer than Autopilot, which complicates their implementation to offer a marginal convenience of not having to steer (but to constantly have to nanny lest it put you into a ditch)
GVIrish 9y ago
I think the problem is deeper than 'is Autopilot better than no-Autopilot'. Is Autopilot better than no Autopilot under what conditions? Is Autopilot being marketed to customers in a way that encourages them to use it in the wrong conditions? How are changes to the Autopilot code being vetted before being deployed OTA to customers? I think if used properly Autopilot can be safer than most drivers without it, but the crux of the issue is that many people will trust the system more than they should, which could make them more dangerous. We're in a dangerous inbetween state with autonomous driving where it's just good enough to fool some people into thinking it's foolproof when it's not.

by chc 9y ago

jonathankoren 9y ago

>Autopilot is better than no-Autopilot. If only there was something to put in the middle of this reasoning! Elon Musk fucked up as soon as he named it "autopilot". He set expectations at autonomous, and released it as a "beta" because that's what you do with some web app, and then when people started using it as an autonomous driving product (because that's what "autopilot" means), they unsurprisingly got killed. But shruggie! Move fast and break things! It's beta! What ya gonna do? On the other hand, if it was called "driver assist", or "super cruise", or some other thing, then drivers' expectations wouldn't be set at "autonomous driving", and then the'd be paying more attention, and probably wouldn't end up dead. I'm sorry, but this is all about setting expectations, and Elon fucked this up.

chc 9y ago
I'll agree that the name "Autopilot" seems to mislead people, but that is a complete side track. Neither the person I replied to nor the person he replied to were talking about the name; they were talking about the technology and whether it was responsible to release it at all, with any name. (For one clear example, the GGP criticized "releasing any kind of machine-assisted driving" with Autopilot's limitations.)
greglindahl 9y ago
The car makes it clear to drivers what "autopilot" means. The only people who might be confused by the term are non-Tesla drivers.
blacksmith_tb 9y ago
It doesn't seem completely misleading, airplanes do a lot of flying on autopilot, but it doesn't mean there's no need for the pilot/co-pilot to be at the controls...
- lttlrck 9y ago
  No it doesn’t but maybe most people think that’s exactly what it means...
  - Fricken 9y ago
    I'm gonna need something better than myth and superstition to buy into this meme that autopilot users don't understand what autopilot is/isn't capable of because of how it is named.
  - King-Aaron 9y ago
    What you're starting to edge towards, then, is an educational issue. Personally I feel the only time I've seen an 'autopilot' shown as a fully autonomous system was in the 1980's film Airplane! I couldn't narrow down exactly where in life I learned about autopilot systems in aircraft, but I always considered it to be common sense that autopilot doesn't mean "can completely fly itself"
    - carlmr 9y ago
      The media is constantly bringing together the terms autopilot, and driverless or self-driving cars. There's definitely the suggestion that the driver is completely unnecessary. You can't expect the average Joe to look this up. It should clearly be marked as beta and dangerous without supervision. Also Tesla says so themselves: >All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than...
      - chc 9y ago
        AFAIK Autopilot is clearly marked as a beta and displays a dialog reminding you of that when you activate it in your car. And "full self-driving capability" is not a reference to Autopilot — it's saying that Tesla eventually plans to implement full self-driving (as a separate feature) and the car includes hardware that will allow you to enable it with just a software upgrade.

BoorishBears 9y ago

The NHTSA should compare ACC+LKA+AEB vs Autopilot (which is all those plus Lane Centering). I'd bet those 3 combined are much safer than Autopilot, which complicates their implementation to offer a marginal convenience of not having to steer (but to constantly have to nanny lest it put you into a ditch)

GVIrish 9y ago

I think the problem is deeper than 'is Autopilot better than no-Autopilot'. Is Autopilot better than no Autopilot under what conditions? Is Autopilot being marketed to customers in a way that encourages them to use it in the wrong conditions? How are changes to the Autopilot code being vetted before being deployed OTA to customers? I think if used properly Autopilot can be safer than most drivers without it, but the crux of the issue is that many people will trust the system more than they should, which could make them more dangerous. We're in a dangerous inbetween state with autonomous driving where it's just good enough to fool some people into thinking it's foolproof when it's not.